If I want Josh Kennedy to play ahead of ADL, is that tanking?
DeLuca may offer more today but the development of Josh will pay off in years to come. In reality, I'm sacrificing today for the medium to long term benefit of Carlton.

I'd rather see Jesse Smith or Ryan Jackson get a run and let Kouta or Stevo get any surgery they need now. Obviously Kouta was struggling with injury before he missed with his hand injury. Why wasnt he rested to get him right.
Stevo is affected by a leg injury at the moment.
Am I tanking if I put him in for surgery or a rest so a youngster can offer 100% compared to Stevo's 70%?
The youngster gets a taste of senior football and Stevo is ready to go next season.

I get frustrated by posters telling other Carlton people they are'nt "real supporters".
If winning is secondary to me at the moment, am I a "pro tanker".
I've stated all along that development should be our priority. I dont care if Denis doesnt win games, his role is to develop a list capable of sustainable success.

Consider Jackson for a game before Prender. Give Jesse Smith a game before Chambers.
It may cost us a game but the long term benefit is more important.
That should be Denis' job description.

If getting greater satisfaction out of the development of our kids over the occasional flukey win is tanking, that'll do me.
If Denis plays the kids and has development as his sole aim, I dont care if we win 6 games or none. he is doing his job well IMO.
However if Denis believes winning games is his primary objective and we miss a priority pick because the coach cant see past today, He should get the arse.

If that's tanking, so be it.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

100% Correct

no that's called planning.

but

after the win (if it happens because Jackson plays a blinder, Kennedy kicks 6 and the other mob have 5 stars out)

should you enjoy the win

or is that enjoyment somehow the unmaking the the carlton football club?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Priority picks should have been scraped. The system is flawed and has given "bad culture" to AFL clubs. The sooner they are removed all together the better. I know sides like the Bulldogs, Saints, Hawks, Magpies and Demons received more of their fair share and we deserve ours, but this culture "of lose for the better of the club" developing amonst supporters is pathetic.

Let me just add....no-one is a better supporter because we all want the best for our club.

I kind of addressed this in another post.

There are four types of Carlton supporters, none of them are any more important or less important than the other just to make things clear:

i. Those who are too stupid to realise how important the draft is.

ii. Those who are very insecure in themselves as a Carlton supporter and think they are a 'true' supporter if they want us to win one more game and scream for Carlton regardless of the consequences.

iii. Those who enjoy footy but don't truly care about Carlton and are willing to put their own short term jollies ahead of picking up a 10 year player or developing a youngster just so they can avoid some stick from a friend or work mate, eg. copping it coz we won the spoon.

iv. Those who have a good understanding of the AFL environment, want ULTIMATE future success not just a top 8 spot, and are willing to do anything to achieve that goal, whether it be trading star players or losing games in the short term.

There are no variations on these groups and the people that fit into groups i, ii or iii will probably be in denial.

Carlton God

Absolutely.
If the kids are firing, the club is on track.

But by the same token, if the team wins and Jackson, Blackwell and Kennedy consistently spend 90 minutes on the bench, that's not development, that's having a dollar each way.

It should'nt be about the result at the moment Danny, it's about the process. TM: Grant Thomas Pty Ltd.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

I think the article on Blackwell, Russell and Oh'Ailpin, to me, illustrated what a positive effect the win had on those three. Particularly Blackwell.

Some have evolved to store for the next winter some haven't and seek instant gratification like a third world economist.
BV you're still pro-tanking unless you put the best available team out every week. That means you are not a "real" supporter. Shame on you.

IN WHAT YOU SAY 100% and know getting a good position in the draft is fundamental to our regeneration as is playing as many young players as we can.
However equally Im in the enjoy a win category if we get one and some on this site seem to want to denigrate those who want to celebrate a win after not winning for 10 weeks .

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

I thought if we were "real" or "The best" supporters, then we should be pro-tanking, because that means we get better draft picks for long term development.

Or is it that "real" supporters would rather have the club play the best possible players every week, on form and depending on the opposition, and if we're good enough we'll win.

Hang on, I'm confused now...

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

In my head I know you are right BV but goddamit just how great was it for our young players to hold on against a top side and finally get to enjoy rewards for their efforts and belt out the song. Surely that has to be better for their development instead of yet another soul-destroying loss.

...agree with Surrey whether you are pro or anti it doesn't make you a better supporter than someone with a different opinion.

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"Whoever said you can't buy happiness forgot about puppies." - Gene Hill

Better supporter?

If you were going for Melbourne on Saturday then you were not supporting Carlton full stop.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

The better supporters are the ones who don't try to make other supporters feel guilty for enjoying a win, nor make other supporters feel guilty for wanting the club to get the priority pick.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

Marc Murphy or Dale Thomas ...... your choice.

It's not my choice though is it?

As supporters we have no bearing on what happens on the field so wankers who tell me I'm not allowed to enjoy a win can go whinge to someone else.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

I agree with BV and dannyboy.

Play and develop the kids in the best way possible. And if we lose and the kdis are still developing nicely, it's no big deal. If we win and the kids are still developing nicely, even better!

After 4 years in the shitter, if our kids win us a few games I'm going to @#$%&! well enjoy it thank you very much!

And that is the difference between the Melbourne win and any other wins we've had since 2001 … our kids, our future, won us the game! Not some old champions or speculative retreads.

Game on! GO BLUES!!!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Look, I took my two year old son along to his first game on the weekend and was rapt that we won. I'll be able to fondly recall in twenty years time that the first game he witnessed was a victory over the Demons, which will always be etched in my memory.

From that perspective, and from a personal point of view it was exciting.

However, the longer term picture is what we should all be striving for and that's accumulating as many number 1 picks as possible, unfortunately, the victory on the weekend willprobably signify that we lose that opportunity.

I'm all for the young players being picked ahead of the stalwarts and also rans. Give them as much time as possible to become footballers. I can see a ray of light at the end of a long and winding tunnel, which that victory on the weekend provided, if only for the personal reasons.