Ronnie boy must have been missing all those times VFL/AFL Club Presidents have said the coach is safe, only to sack him within 3 weeks.
Mind you, things are looking promising.
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| Pagan vs Smorgon? http://talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11868 |
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| Author: | 4thchicken [ Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Pagan vs Smorgon? |
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/ ... 22,00.html |
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| Author: | billy_bongo [ Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:33 am ] |
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Bit of a wank there by Mr Ron. Yes Smorgs is a commercial businessman but Carlton is a commercial venture, is it not? And if Smorgs' Production Mgr is not producing the goods due poor hiring, inadequate strategies or whatever, then that Manager should not escape the end of season appraisal nor its consequences. The Carlton Commercial Venture hired a supposedly top production manager to put its $7 million worth of equipment in order and to increase production and over the last four years this has not happened. Resonsibility means being held responsible. I haven't heard Ron come out and say anything about Pagan blaming the list virtually every week. I find this much more odious than the club president coming out and saying there will be a review of the football department after four years on the bottom. As a supporter, I would expect this. It seems though that the battle lines are being drawn within the club. Its highly likely that Ron would have discussed this media outburst with Pagan and gotten his OK. I suspect also that Fev suddenly throwing his hat into the captaincy ring a few days after Kouta came out and endorsed Lance and Stevo, is part of this internal battle. So unfortunately for the club, this schism is going to be played out in the media. Stay tuned. The bottom line is that the club, as represented by the president and the board, cannot and must not lose this battle. We cannot have the coach, an employee of the club whatever his reputation, overruling the Carlton Football Club. We need to put all the problems that have haunted the club since Black Friday to bed once and for all and set the direction for the coming years. Hopefully, the club has a plan for the future and will act decisively and quickly to put such plans in place. As a parting shot perhaps Ron would have been happier if Smorgan had come out with a glowing endorsement of Pagan. In football parlance that usually means the guillotine is being sharpened. |
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| Author: | Headplant [ Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:51 am ] |
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Ronnie boy must have been missing all those times VFL/AFL Club Presidents have said the coach is safe, only to sack him within 3 weeks.
Mind you, things are looking promising. |
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| Author: | JohnM [ Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:12 am ] |
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Good post billy. |
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| Author: | dannyboy [ Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:49 am ] |
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You'd have to think Pagan discussed this and so I (who would really wish the board was replaced) agree - if it comes to a battle I want the board to win. |
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| Author: | kingkerna [ Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:28 am ] |
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Don't underestimate this folks, DP would have known that Rotten Ron would make these comments. We don't see him objecting to them do we? The battle lines seem to have been drawn and I think that GS would have found these comments to be rather insaulting. F$%k off Ron and take your client with you! This just adds to the 'YES' reasons to get rid of Libba and Trout. It also really seems that Mitchell is left out of the 'in' crowd. Guess he is not a Pagan henchman. |
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| Author: | Molly [ Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:52 am ] |
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Out of interest is all of this making people feel better about Somorgon? |
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| Author: | kingkerna [ Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:58 am ] |
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I feel better in the sense that he is not going to crumble to Ron Joseph & hopefully will hold strong to his beliefs. Maybe he will be the one that will pay out Pagans contract? |
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| Author: | Blue Vain [ Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:07 am ] |
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Molly wrote: Out of interest is all of this making people feel better about Somorgon?
As a media performer, he makes a good businessman. To state Pagan has a 2 year contract makes me cringe. Surely a club president should know the terms of the coaches contract. 
However, if he has the balls to take Pagan on and make the hard decisions, he'll do me for the present. |
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| Author: | stretford blue [ Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:16 am ] |
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Ron Joseph was just on SEN and had a couple of interesting things to say on top of what was reported this morning: Said the club was in "disarray". Might have even been "total disarray". Pagan does not have the quality of person at Carlton, either on or off the field, supporting him at Carlton than he did at the Roos. Mentioned how strange it was that people were putting their hands up to coach all of a sudden and mentioned Ratten and, I thought significantly, Mitchell. The club is now "in receivership" and is being run by the AFL. "Anytime that you ask Carlton anything they say "Hang on, we have to ask the AFL and we'll get back to you"." Alluded to factions in the club at war with each other and painted a pretty bleak future unless people started to get their act together. |
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| Author: | Wild Blue Yonder [ Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:22 am ] |
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SNAFU |
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| Author: | kingkerna [ Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:37 am ] |
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Quote: SNAFU
meaning? Re the club being in disarray - of course his client has nothing to do with the current situation either. |
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| Author: | dannyboy [ Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:39 am ] |
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Molly - not for me. I am firmly in the change the board not the coach group (I think it's a group of 1  ) but if this is going to be a battle then i think it would be dangerous for the coach to win it.
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| Author: | Blue Vain [ Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:43 am ] |
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Lets be consistent with this. When Dave Allison comes out and whinges, we understand he is Koutas representative and whatever he says, it is on behalf of his client. Ron Joseph is no different. If he bags the club so publicly and maliciously, he is acting on behalf of his client. |
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| Author: | Ockham's Razor [ Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:45 am ] |
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On the weekend I heard the Smorgon interview and also a separate interview of Brian Cook from Geelong. They were poles apart in the public picture that each painted of their respective clubs & coaches. Cook was positive about the Cats & Thompson - despite the fact that they have been the worst performed club in the league based on pre-season expectations. Cook protected the Cats "brand" and stated categorically that Thompson will be the coach next year. Even if the Cats & Thompson part ways at season's end Cook did everything in a professional manner to protect the public image of the Cats. Then there was the Smorgon interview! Smorgon did everything that Cooke didn't. He created doubt about where the club was headed. He projected uncertainty about the internal workings of the club. He indicated that there was potential for conflict. He failed in his job to represent each of us professionally & to present our club in the very best light. He could have made positive statements about the future whilst behind the scenes conducting his review & doing what he believes is necessary to turn us around. Instead he aired it all in public by providing doubt about how cohesive the club is. He had an opportunity to present a positive image of the club yet he continued to show the public that the club is in disarray. The Smorgon interivew was extremely poor. If he is to remain President of our club he needs to adopt a radically different approach to selling the public message about where the Blues are headed. For mine he isn't the right person for the job. Regards Ockham |
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| Author: | dannyboy [ Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:49 am ] |
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I agree he isn't but how damaging could it be for the club if Denis was seen to 'win' and kept Libba and Trout on and Mitchell was sacked? |
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| Author: | gerry atric [ Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:08 am ] |
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Quote: To state Pagan has a 2 year contract makes me cringe. Surely a club president should know the terms of the coaches contract.
Actually BV I took it to mean that he has two years to go after this season which is correct. I thought Smorgon spoke well. Comparing him to Cooke is not really fair. Cooke is CEO, Smorgon head of the board and while Geelong were in trouble several years back, they are not in receivership now as we are. That's not to say that I don't wish Cooke was our CEO. Regarding DP, Joseph should shut his gob, but the fact that he came out swinging indicates that there is a lot going on behind the scenes. We made a huge mistake signing Pagan up again after 2 years of his 3 year contract but it has been done and I don't see us being able to sack Pagan and pay him out. And if we keep him we have to give him the largest say over his assistants. If we try to force him out by appointing people he can't work with the club will be a lot worse than it is at present. I think the main problem we have is the lack of a great strategic thinker and we should get one in in addition to current coaches. I think our game plan is poor and the assistants were said by Smorgon some time ago to have great input into the new run sideways kick it backwards plan. So it reflects as badly on ouir assistants as on DP. I think we have made progress this year. I don't know if Pagan has lost the players, if he hasn't then let him serve his term. We improve slowly, learn a lot about the fundamentals and 1%s get some good draft picks. Then get a modern coach in 09 when the majority of our group is ready to blossom. |
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| Author: | Elwood Blues1 [ Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:14 am ] |
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Joseph is acting for his client.....just reminding Carlton they have a contract . Smorgan failed to endorse Pagan and I dont have a problem with Joseph going into bat for his man..you would expect it.. I thought Smorgan should have been a bit smarter than that and chosen his words better....it was a tad inflammatory as was Pagan not declaring his support for Mitchell....Mitchell however responded with more tact in todays paper when asked about his coaching asperations and how things were going..... With Smorgan not being a football person or Malouf for that matter maybe Joseph has a point.... |
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| Author: | kingkerna [ Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:15 am ] |
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Blue Vain wrote: Lets be consistent with this. When Dave Allison comes out and whinges, we understand he is Koutas representative and whatever he says, it is on behalf of his client. Ron Joseph is no different. If he bags the club so publicly and maliciously, he is acting on behalf of his client. BV - Why do you think Dave Allison is hated so much? We don't just accept him at all, he is the lowest of the low. Quote: Cook was positive about the Cats & Thompson
Ockham, didn't you hear Cook say that they couldn't take Acka becuase they have a poor leadership group at Geelong? That doesn't sound positive to me. |
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| Author: | gerry atric [ Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:27 am ] |
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Quote: With Smorgan not being a football person
Elwood, is Smorgon not a footy person, as in doesn't know a lot about it? If so why on earth would he get involved to the level he has with a dud club like ours? |
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