Well I've made up my mind on what we roughly should do at the end of the season... (thanks to ODN for the inspiration & the template )

2007 list.

28 (2006 listed) players retained (after 1 retirement, 7 delistings and 2 players traded for two 2nd rnd draft picks).
+
3 rookie promotions.
= 31 players.
+
6 National Draft picks (hopefully picks 2, 18, 20, #, #, 36)
1 Pre-season draft pick (Pick 2)
=38.

5 Rookie Draft picks available.


Anthony Koutoufides - 34
His contract will expire and age has caught up with him He is and should be remembered as a Carlton great. Thankyou Kouta for some wonderful memories. RETIRE

Matthew Lappin - 31
Has another year to run on his contract. His experience & versatility is desperately required for our young list. Needs to take on added leadership responsibility and deliver a positive & professional return. If he can do that he will go down as a very highly respected Carlton person. RETAIN

Barnaby French - 31
Hopefully a good end of season break will refreshen Barney and lead him to go on for one more year. His height, rucking ability and leadership are required at Carlton for one final run. RETAIN

Cory McGrath - 28
An inspiration on the track to the young blokes which hopefully has rubbed off on them permanently. A true leader by all reports. Will find it difficult to keep his senior spot with youngsters coming through but will be a valuable list player. RETAIN

Troy Longmuir - 28
Contract will expire. Injury plagued stint at Carlton which never really saw him fully fit for an extended time. To many others ahead of him competing for a spot in the forward line and midfield. DELIST

Lance Whitnall - 27
Performed very well at certain times in certain roles in defence. Is very handy when fully fit to play certain roles. Was found out for pace & height a few times which limits his usability. With tall KPP’s being available for selection next year and a very strong 2006 draft pool and his current trade value as high as it’s going to get the club needs to make a courageous decision. TRADE

Jason Saddington - 27
Has another 12 months on his contract. Should be a ‘squad’ player in the ants needed as back-up for injuries. RETAIN

Callum Chambers - 27
Great training work ethic which hopefully has influenced our young players. Just lacking in quality ball handling, decision making & disposal at AFL level. DELIST

Nick Stevens - 27
Another 12 months on his contract. Experienced playmaker who will be required to take some of the attention away from our young developing midfielders. Is versatile enough to play a number of roles when required. RETAIN

Heath Scotland - 26
See Nick Stevens. RETAIN

Ian Prendergast - 26
A great role model and leader of the club. Unfortunately lacking in AFL quality skill and decision making. DELIST

Brendan Fevola - 26
Has matured greatly this year. Needs to keep off the drink and remain fit and retain his current work ethic. RETAIN

David Teague - 25
An example of how the game has progressed so much in a short time. Is too slow in decision making and pace. Inspirational courage can only get you so far these days. RETAIN

Ryan Houlihan - 25
Full credit to Houla for giving it his all this year. Has been tried in a number of different roles and shown enough for maybe another club to be interested in a trade. With this years deep draft the club need to make a courageous decision to trade for picks. TRADE

Chris Bryan - 24
Contract will expire. Needs to make way for draftees & rookie promotions. DELIST

Dylan McLaren - 24
Has 12 months left on the contract. Will be needed as a back-up ruck. RETAIN

Adrian DeLuca - 24
With numerous forward options available next year the club needs to re-direct Archie’s services next year and give him a full-time ruck apprenticeship with a full-time ruck coach with the Bullants for 2007 in preparation for 2008 & beyond with Carlton. RETAIN

Simon Wiggins - 24
Improved in performance through the second half of the year. Seemingly an important part of the team fabric who should be a handy list player and spend most games with the Bullants. RETAIN

Trent Sporn - 24
Hasn’t grasped his opportunities at AFL in his 6 years at the club unfortunately. Needs to make way for draftees and rookie promotions. DELIST

Jordan Bannister - 24
Is a handy run with/mobile player who will be a handy list player. RETAIN

Luke Livingston - 24
Contract will expire. Too many others seemingly in front of him for a senior spot. DELIST

Jarrad Waite - 24
Really needs to mature and take the next step. Still has a huge upside with his height & mobility. Has a touch of the X factor which can win games. RETAIN

Setanta O'hAilpin - 23
As with Waite he has a huge upside with his height, mobility and aggression at the contest. Just coming to grips the the AFL tempo. Needs to be persevered with. RETAIN

Justin Davies - 23
Contract will expire. Will probably make way for draftees & rookie promotions. DELIST

Bret Thornton - 23
With some added support in defence Tbird could mature into a very damaging attacking defender. We have only seen a small amount of what he has to offer at AFL level I believe. One of our current best performers who has the scope to improve even more. RETAIN

Andrew Carrazzo - 23
One of a few to fly the flag show & some presence for his team mates. Has the ability to find plenty of the ball but doesn’t penetrate and hurt the opposition enough with his disposal. For the amount of ball he gets he really needs to use the ball a lot better and make the opposition pay more often. !2 more months to improve his output. RETAIN

Brad Fisher - 22
A difficult matchup for opposition teams. He will make the opposition pay if they don’t respect and put an inferior defender on him. If used properly in a properly constructed forward structure he is a very handy weapon. Seriously needs to bulk to protect himself better in pack situations. RETAIN

Kade Simpson - 22
One of the great improvers of the year in the AFL. Consistantly was one of our true playmakers who broke the lines and created opportunities for his team mates. Really stepped up in the leadership stakes. Should be rewarded with a nice contract. RETAIN

Adam Bentick - 21
Tough uncompromising in & under player that we desperately need. Needs to keep working on his kicking penetration and quickness of disposal. Also needs to work on his agility to be more evasive and not get caught with the ball as much. RETAIN

Aisake O'hAilpin - 21
Project player who has the potential to play a number of roles in the future. Height, agility, pace and a good work ethic should see him continue to improve. Hopefully will develop into a much needed ruck option. RETAINED ROOKIE

Jesse Smith - 21
Tough in & under mifielder who has returned to form after a serious injury. A great work ethic, super courageous and can find the ball. Should be promoted and made to compete with Bentick & Blackwell for a midfield spot. PROMOTE

Adam Hartlett - 20
A tall, confident, aggressive, uncompromising KPP with a booming kick. Has good pace and mobility for his size and is a good mark. Will provide much needed presence for his smaller team mates which will greatly improve their confidence. Huge potential if he looks after his body. Very important to the team fabric IMO. RETAIN

Daniel Batson - 20
Spending most of his 2 years with the bullant reserves suggests he is not progressing as quickly as would be hoped. Will probably make way for a fresh rookie . DELISTED ROOKIE

Andrew Walker - 20
Took on some of the toughest jobs the AFL has to offer and was courageous enough to play with some nasty injuries. Still has plenty of improvement left in and is fast becoming a leader at the club. Extremely versatile and would be a favourite with any coach. RETAIN

Jordan Russell - 20
Still finding his feet and adapting to the faster AFL pace but has shown decent skill, pace and link up ability to suggest he will play a key part in the team structure. Once he physically fills out, settles and gains more in confidence he should become a very damaging player. RETAIN

Luke Blackwell - 20
Natural footballer who has class written all over him. Smoothe mover who has already just about picked up the tempo. By the time he’s a 50 gamer he will be very damaging to the opposition. Very exciting future talent. RETAIN

Eddie Betts - 20
Will be the icing on the cake when the team is more developed. Will be the type who gets the fans through the turnstiles and the memberships up. Needs to maintain his defensive work ethic and be more confident in himself to make things happen. Amazing natural talent. RETAIN

Anthony Raso - 19
An interrupted first 2 years on the list but really started to get some results on the board in the second half of this season. From all reports he is versatile enough to fill a number of roles with his better than decent height and good skills. Has that bit of class about him apparently. RETAIN

Ryan Jackson - 19
Great work ethic. A playmaker with good skills who covers a lot of territory. Seemingly is ready to break into the senior side. PROMOTE

Marc Murphy - 19
Just a class playmaker who will lead this club back to success. RETAIN

Craig Flint - 19
A quiet achiever who just gets the job done in defence. Courageous, honest. Will fill a very important role in defence. PROMOTE

Josh Kennedy - 19
Tightly wrapped up in cotton wool and nursed by Pagan in his senior appearances this year. With a taste of AFL and a filled out frame JK should make a huge impact at CHF in 2007. RETAIN

Jake Edwards - 19
Good pace, height & skill helps him provide another option for senior selection next year. Part of a good depth of tall, fast talent. RETAIN

Paul Bower - 19
Again good pace, height and skill with an attacking nature from defence will prove extremely valuable in the coming seasons. A ton of promise. RETAIN


Go Blues!!!

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There's so much I could say...

agree with pretty well all of that. but i'd hang on to lance. see what we can get for stevo. top 25 pick minumum.

not sure if i'd promote smith, maybe on a one year, but he's going to be competeing with the other new senior players (edwards, flint, jackson, blackwell, russell) and whoever gets drafted.

i'd hang on to livo before teague or saddo but they are all on the chopping block, and existing contracts may determine who stays and goes.

i'd hang on to bryan also.

fair call on trading houla, i'd also see if i could get anything for deluca. (wishfull thinking perhaps)

After the Melbourne game, I'd want at least pick 23

Good list by the way budzy, pretty much on the money I reckon.

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Congratulations CK95

Don't delist Davies - surely we can get a pick in the 60's from the Bombers for him?

Trade Houla, keep Stevens? Nice work otherwise.



(I've tidied up the formatting to, hopefully, make the list easier to read.)

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Looks pretty good although,

Teague must go game gone past him nothing 2 offer in the future.
Would still hold on 2 bryan and cannot promote smith on the basis that he has done nothing at the bullants 2 suggest that he has what it takes.

15 players on that list will be gone in two years.
Names:
Kouta, Lappin, French, McGrath, Longmuir, Saddington, Chambers, Prenda, Teague, Bryan, DeLuca, Sporn, Livingston, Davies, Batson.

13 players have question marks.
Names:
McLaren, Bannister, S&A O'Halpin,Smith,Hartlett, Russell, Blackwell,Raso,Jackson,Flint,Edwards,Bower.

Now lets be optimistic and say that 50% of the question marks come good. We need to replace 20 players in two years.

Yep, I agree we don't need a priority pick

great analysis of the players budzy and i agree with everything except i'd like to see bryan given 1 last year 1 last chance to try his guts out and become a good ruckman.

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Last edited by true_blue3 on Mon Sep 26, 1981 5:07 pm; edited 92 times in total

Sorry budsy, I thought I would follow your format for my take on the matter

Anthony Koutoufides - 34 – Very hard to call with Kouta. He can be a liability nowadays as opponents run away from him when they go forward but he is contributing and showing some form. Regardless, I think he should go. RETIRE

Matthew Lappin - 31 – Another year on his contract as budsy mentions. Need to keep some of our experience as we build the list. RETAIN

Barnaby French - 31 – The problem with Barnaby is that it takes him 3/4 of a season to get going and by then it is too late. However, without the services of another reasonable ruck he should probably go on. RETAIN

Cory McGrath - 28 – The gap between his good and bad games is TOO great. Still has a role to play and does enough to persist with. Also, brings maturity and experience to a list that will get younger as we shed players. RETAIN

Troy Longmuir - 28 – Sadly has not done enough to warrant retention whether through his fault or bad luck. Of all the retreads, I was hoping he would get going the most but not to be. DELIST

Lance Whitnall - 27 – Has been a great contributor all year and I think that he could still fill problem gaps for our team for years to come. Is a Carlton man and I think contractually bound. Not enough KP's pushing up to warrant his departure. RETAIN

Jason Saddington - 27 – Contract will keep him here for another year. May step up if he can get his knee right. RETAIN

Callum Chambers - 27 – Cant seem to translate good form and touch from the VFL into the AFL. Simply fumbles too much in the seniors and fails to find enough of the ball. DELIST

Nick Stevens - 27 – Contract may prohibit any departure here (trade-wise), however, if a club was willing to throw up some decent trade offerings then I would not be upset if a deal is done. RETAIN (probably)

Heath Scotland - 26 – Solid contributor and regular of the team. RETAIN

Ian Prendergast - 26 – Not good enough for AFL. Has had more than enough opportunities. DELIST

Brendan Fevola - 26 – Unfairly maligned in the past. Would be hard to imagine how good Brendan would be at another (good) club. An absolute gun. RETAIN

David Teague - 25 – Not up to AFL standard anymore. DELIST

Ryan Houlihan - 25 – Even if he is still prone to the occasional moment of softness and cant tackle, he has tried this year and has added more strings to his bow. Besides Murphy, probably no-one better delivering the ball inside 50 than Ryan. With a stronger midfield around him he could be a regular, solid contributor. RETAIN

Chris Bryan - 24 – At AFL level, he is not a ruckman or a KP player and therefore has no role in our side. DELIST

Dylan McLaren - 24 – Contract in place. Back-up ruck but really not up to AFL standard. A disappointing pick up overall. RETAIN

Adrian DeLuca - 24 – I don't think there is much hope for Adrian to either make him an AFL ruck or a KP forward. Awareness and decision making are VFL standard at best and has really made little progress since his recruitment. Might be retained only to provide some back-up for the rucks. Every club list should probably have three rucks to choose from. RETAIN

Simon Wiggins - 24 – Has improved somewhat this year but has tapered off in the last month or so. Will be held onto has he still has a role in the side and can pinch hit up forward or on-ball. RETAIN

Trent Sporn - 24 – Not up to AFL standard. Has had chances. DELIST

Jordan Bannister - 24 – May only be given another year to show something. He demotion last week was not a good sign. Might survive the cut to avoid too many departures. RETAIN

Luke Livingston - 24 – A truly sad story with Luke. The club crucified him early days and adding the long list of unlucky injuries he's suffered has never recovered. Not up to it anymore. DELIST

Jarrad Waite - 24 – If only he could eliminate the "show pony" aspect of his game and improve disposal he could be anything. RETAIN

Setanta O'hAilpin - 23 – Still really in the early developing stages and I think has enormous upside. The game still hasn't clicked to him and is not instinctive. I think he can reach that level eventually and then he will come on in leaps and bounds. RETAIN

Justin Davies - 23 – Wow, what a sad decline. I thought he could've cemented a place in our side and perhaps taken up a more permanent on-ball role. Not sighted and destined to exit from Carlton. DELIST

Bret Thornton - 23 – What a great year from Bret and has re-established himself as a key defender in our side. Has had reasonable scalps and is destined for many years in the navy blue. Amazing that he is still only 22! RETAIN

Andrew Carrazzo - 23 – Andrew's only drawbacks are his inconsistent disposal and iffy decision making at times. Knows how to find the ball, can play inside and manoeuvre in traffic. Can play back and on-ball and may still have improvement left in him. RETAIN

Brad Fisher - 22 – Brad has shown how dangerous he can be in the last few weeks and can add a potent dimension to our forward line. Disposal is still sub-standard (especially kicking depth) and lacks durability. Has a great future though. RETAIN

Kade Simpson - 22 – What a great year for Kade. A very bright future for him and our team. All class. RETAIN

Adam Bentick - 21 – Tough inside player who has shown that he can find the ball regularly. Unfortunately, lacks pace, especially off the mark and his disposal can be inconsistent. Regardless, still very young and has a role in our youngish midfield. RETAIN

Aisake O'hAilpin - 21 – Still eligible for another year as a rookie and is a long term project. RETAIN AS ROOKIE

Jesse Smith - 21 – Unfortunately for Jesse a major injury pre-Christmas set him back in a year that he really needed to be at his best every week. Could probably justify his elevation but will he be only fighting for spots regularly with Bentick and Blackwell? Depending on the types of picks we acquire (pacy, running types) may weigh heavily on what the club does with Jesse. Might be some hope. PROMOTE

Adam Hartlett - 20 – I see a lot of promise with Adam and has the dimensions and mongrel to claim a spot in our side, in defence preferrably! Hopefully he can avoid injuries. RETAIN

Daniel Batson - 20 – Regardless of the fact that young rucks should be given more latitude when it comes to list management he has not done enough to warrant promotion. His last year as a rookie. DELIST

Andrew Walker - 20 – As per Simmo, a super year for 1AW. Huge future. RETAIN

Jordan Russell - 20 – Still trying to establish himself. Has plenty of improvement left in him. RETAIN

Luke Blackwell - 20 – Very exciting talent. Has shown he is able to step up to the AFL. RETAIN

Eddie Betts - 20 – Regardless of where his preferred position is he is an exciting talent and still to improve. RETAIN

Anthony Raso - 19 – Still very young and raw in terms of AFL and will have the next pre-season to get his body prepared for some action next year. RETAIN

Ryan Jackson - 19 – Still amazing he got through to the rookie draft and although he has another year as a rookie if required, I think he has done enough to warrant promotion and a crack at adding depth to our on-ball group. PROMOTE

Marc Murphy - 19 – Gun. RETAIN

Craig Flint - 19 – Awesome start to the year which unfortunately was interrupted by injury. I would approach Craig with patience and leave him as a rookie for another year. RETAIN

Josh Kennedy - 19 – CHF for the next 10 years. Some of his pack-marking is awesome to watch. For a kid who had virtually zero pre-season he has done very well. RETAIN

Jake Edwards - 19 – 1st year player. RETAIN

Paul Bower - 19 – 1st year player. RETAIN

That's 9 delistings from the senior list, 1 delisting and 2 promotions from the rookie list which provides 6 senior spots and 4 rookie spots.

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C'mon Blueboys!

we will not get a priority pick...will almost certainly beat one of hawthorn and richmond if not both

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Succumb to your highest emotion!!!!

We don't need it. Our list is in good shape.

Nice tidy up cb thanks.

Yep trade Houla while he's got some value, hoping Jackson can step up & take over his roles. Trade Lance and hope Hartlett/Bower/Flint/Hansen? can step up to support Tbird and free him up to be more creative in the Lance mold.
A fully fit Stevens is better value than Houla IMO.

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There's so much I could say...

Saddington needs to be paid out, his knees are stuffed and will only break down again IMO. His payout will be included in next years TPP so with Kouta's contract gone and a kid replacing him, we are not going to lose anything that we don't have to pay anyway, this way we have a kid learning the ropes a year earlier. The same goes for any other contracted player who has not delivered. We have TPP freedom next year without the cattle to fully utilise it.

The rest of the list I pretty much agree with. Bannister is a tough one IMO, did he show enough if his extended run in the seniors? IMO he showed flashes and had some good games, but he is middle AFL age so isn't really going to improve much more.

Marci, I believe Bryan offers more than Archie. My choice would be to delist Archie before Bryan. No coincidence that French's form has improved dramatically since Bryan has been playing seniors, French knows he has competition for a change. Deluca is at best a emergency forward come next year with Kennedy, Waite, Fisher, Fevola and Edwards Raso coming through. He cannot ruck fullstop.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

I too would like to see Teague go... He just isn't good enough and IMO, we can't afford to have a 25 year old on our list who has completely lost his touch and I dont believe he will get any better.

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GO BLUE BOYS!!

Pretty good effort by all involved. I would add the following points.

1) We have three guys who should be delisted but have contracts: Teague, Saddington, Deluca. As much as I'd like to, I don't think we should pay anyone out that we don't have to. Sure we will have plenty of TPP room next year, but that's not really the issue. You've still got to pay the replacement players even if they are kids. Now if we were like the Hawks and sitting around having money fights with our $7m in cash, then that's no big deal. But we're not, we're $7m in debt, at that means we should suck it up for another year and save the $100-150K. That's a large portion of our interest bill for the year afterall. Now, if we were berefit of other players to delist instead, more flexibility might be in order. But we're not, so save the cash.

2) People tend to get emotional attachments to rookie listed players. Trying to look at it objectively, I can't see a rational for promoting Jessie Smith. We've basically got Bentick, Blackwell and Murphy competing for 2 spots as it is and they've all shown plenty. Now sure Smith has had his injuries, and maybe it's not fair, but that is the lot of the rookie lister and the reality is there is a McCormick, Stinear, Smith every year. When I look at our midfield I think we need about 2-3 more pacey running midfielders who carry the ball, break the lines and then deliver it well. I just don't see how Smith adds anything in this regard.

3) I'd probably bite the bullet and just promote Aisake anyway. The ruckmen on our list are French, Deluca, Bryan and McClaren. Now really it doesn't matter which of Bryan/Deluca gets the arse this year, I honestly can't see either of them being on the list at the end of next year, and French is likely to retire/be retired then as well. That means Mclaren will have to be retained as a backup. If you disagree horrbily with that analysis, then substiute your preferred out of the three for Mclaren.

Like it or not, we've got ourselves in a situation where Aisake plus whoever we draft and/or trade for this year are going to be it in 2008. I'd rather reckonise that now, and have Aisake on the senior list in 2007 so that if he continues his rapid development then we can give him some valuable games towards the end of 07. Realistically, we need Leunberger, so I hope he slips.

We should tell Teague and the other contracted players that even if we keep them they won't play senior footy

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"I had to eat"

Assuming Hartlett and Bower can step up and peform in defence as everyone expects the real concern is the ruck.

French has been a good pickup.Honest and gives a contest,but isnt getting any younger.One year possibly 2 left.

Deluca Can only make it as a ruckman but is shit in that department .As mentioned his decision making is slow and poor.A pity this is the case because he is quick and mobile.

McLaren isnt up to it.

Bryan A little short but has a good footy brain a beautiful kick and technically a good ruckman.

AIsake and Batson One of these guys needs to be promoted.Batson needs to be promoted if he is retained in any capacity at the club.I have seen Batson play and he goes alright.Is mobile has a good football brain so I cant understand why he doesnt play ones for the ants and plays in the ruck rather than forward.Iwould take a punt and promote Batson and keep O'Hailpin on the rookie list for another year.O'Hailpin needs to thicken out a bit.Would be smashed at AFL level.Batson looks stronger.Ruckman as we all know develop slowly and with our stocks in such short supply I would promote Batson and with another pre season and more coaching from Demps he could suprise in 2007.We must choose a ruckman from the draft but they are unlikely to be ready to play senior AFL footy so I would promote Batson.

I think we should get rid of the players with obvious deficencies.

Carrazzo is one. He panics too much. Bad decision maker. Tries his heart out but that doesn’t interest me. There will be plenty of players to chose from in this years draft that will try just as hard as him but they'll be better decision makers. Twice this season has missed a goal from point blank range. Trade/ Delist if he is uncontracted.

Wiggings - See Carrazzo.

Bentick - I don't mind him he gets a lot of the ball but just seems that something is lacking. Maybe intensity? If we can get a decent trade I'd let him go. Other wise I'd retain him.



Teague, Mcgrath, Longmuir, Saddington, French, Chambers, Prendergast, Mclaren, De Luca, Sporn, Livingston, Bannister should all go. I doubt if we'd be lucky enough to get any draft picks for them.

I'd promote Jackson and Flint. Not sure about Batson as I haven't seen him play.

Forget about a Lance trade, it wont happen. Our young team needs experience and Lance's has got it in bucket loads. We should try and trade some player for a decent pick but I'd hate to be the one making that decision. There are pro's and con's in trading the likes of a Stevens, Scotland or Houlihan etc.

I'll let Kouta make up his mind on what he wants to do and I'd definetly keep Davies if he can get over his back injury.

Totally agree, if we get Hanssen then with with our current crop of kids our backline is starting to take shape. The ruckis the real concern for the future. I like the idea of promoting Batson and giving Aisake an extra year on the rokie list. Batson will have 2007 to show that he is worth retaining and the Irishman can play out his last rookie season as a fulltime ruckman for the Bullants.. In terms of planning for the future I think the timings make sense

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Carlton - Nothing's changed
I still love you, oh, I still love you
Only slightly, only slightly less
Than I used to, my love

I reckon intensity would be the last of AB's problems.

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