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| 3 Good Players Short? http://talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11887 |
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| Author: | Chitty's Finger [ Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | 3 Good Players Short? |
I was thinking alot about our win against Melbourne. Demon fans tell us about their injuries and how that stopped them from winning. Fair enough, but you can only beat the team that runs out against you. But if we can beat a Melbourne team without Pickett, Davey and Johnstone, 3 quasi midfielders with severe run and skill between them... are we 3 good players short ourselves of being a good team? If we're 3 players short, maybe 3 midfielders, could we be a much better team with our 2 early picks in next years draft plus a good PSD pick? |
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| Author: | Headplant [ Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:58 am ] |
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One could argue there is more than 3 players difference between top and bottom. One could also argue it's not necessarily just the players. If one looks at the Bullants, one could argue there is possibly some depth in our list. One could also argue there is not. Of course, if you look around TC and other fora, it becomes obvious one could actually argue about lots of things. But would one be right? 
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| Author: | Chitty's Finger [ Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:12 am ] |
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I disagree with that argument 
What would one argue if one's name was Headplant apropos the 3 players short theory? |
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| Author: | Headplant [ Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:44 am ] |
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I think it's not just about how many players short we are, it's more complicated than that. For example, Melbourne looked a bit flat, Blues looked more determined. You can't translate results from a single game into meaningful numbers like that. We came close to beating the Eagles recently. Would we do that 5 times out of 5? I doubt it. We could reasonably expect 3 top 20 picks to make a difference in 3 years time, possibly less. But how much diffference is hard to know, it depends upon lots of things. Each other club will probably be getting at least 1 top 20 pick as well. They are all trying to improve. ALso, we have seen some individuals improving this season, but perhaps not so much improvement in actual team performance. And the reason for this does not necessarily rest just with the players. I don't think you can really quantify it. |
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| Author: | TruBlueBrad [ Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 3 Good Players Short? |
Athorn the Wonderkid wrote: I was thinking alot about our win against Melbourne. Demon fans tell us about their injuries and how that stopped them from winning. Fair enough, but you can only beat the team that runs out against you.
But if we can beat a Melbourne team without Pickett, Davey and Johnstone, 3 quasi midfielders with severe run and skill between them... are we 3 good players short ourselves of being a good team? If we're 3 players short, maybe 3 midfielders, could we be a much better team with our 2 early picks in next years draft plus a good PSD pick? We were already missing Murphy and Kennedy ourselves. |
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| Author: | woof [ Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 3 Good Players Short? |
Athorn the Wonderkid wrote: I was thinking alot about our win against Melbourne. Demon fans tell us about their injuries and how that stopped them from winning. Fair enough, but you can only beat the team that runs out against you.
But if we can beat a Melbourne team without Pickett, Davey and Johnstone, 3 quasi midfielders with severe run and skill between them... are we 3 good players short ourselves of being a good team? If we're 3 players short, maybe 3 midfielders, could we be a much better team with our 2 early picks in next years draft plus a good PSD pick? And when we played StKilkda, Adelaide, Collingwood, Geelong etc etc. How many players short did you think we were after those games? 25 plus players on our list will retire, are not good enough or have question marks against their name. |
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| Author: | The Duke [ Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:49 am ] |
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We have a very competetive list when we're at full strength. You see what happens when Waite, Fisher, Kouta, Murphy or Lappin are out - we just can't replace them. Sure Melbourne had 3 players out, but the 3 who replaced them would've only been 20% behind them in terms of quality. When we lose Waite or Fish we bring in Prenda or DeLuca who are 60% behind. It's taken those two blokes a few weeks to get match fit, but they're looking better now. When we can replace the McGrath type players on the list with real quality, we'll be very, very competetive. We should push the dawks right to the line this week given our similar lists. |
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| Author: | Carlton God [ Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:01 am ] |
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You could argue we are better than Melbourne because we beat them and don't need pick 18. |
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| Author: | Dukes [ Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:11 pm ] |
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I still think we're at least half a dozen away from being competitive on a regular basis. 1 key defender 1 ruck 4 midfielders The drafting of Hansen would certainly fix the backline in the medium to long term and backup looks handy in Bower and Hartlett. We need Russell to develop into the Lappin role of 2-3 years ago on a HBF while the midfield's deficiencies are no secret. Murphy will obviously fill one spot and the priority should be drafting guys in this position. The ruck is a real problem. Do we go for another quick fix when we delist French and/or Deluca, trade aggressively for one of the higher rated developing types such as Meeson or Deluca or simply draft a Renouf and wait it out. Interesting decisions to be made. |
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| Author: | phoenix johnson [ Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:21 pm ] |
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DeLuca's been signed. We should target Meeson. |
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| Author: | Pafloyul [ Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:23 pm ] |
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I think we are ideally about 5-6 good players short and that’s after I've factored in a few of the kids I think will make it. I have my doubts that we will ever get the mix exactly right but we may end up compensating in other areas. Although we need another two good midfielders badly, there is a danger in other doing it. Injuries and other factors may find us wanting. |
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| Author: | blueboy8 [ Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:50 pm ] |
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We are probably 6 or 8 players short of being a good team. This will probably take more then two years to achieve. We still need to get rid of at least 10 or 12 people on our list and that isn’t going to happen this year due to contracts and other things. Most of the kids that have got a game this year have shown enough to see that we have a bright future ahead. A minimum we need At least two tall defenders Thornton and Lance are crying for some help down back. One half developed ruckmen. French will have to be there for another year we need a strong body in the ruck. And at least three midfielders one of which needs to be high quality. Our Forward line seems fine we have plenty of different options there |
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| Author: | Humpers [ Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:51 pm ] |
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Without being too greedy, I think we are 4 players away from being a very good side. One ruckman, one key defender and two more quality mids would make us a top four side in a year or two. |
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| Author: | dannyboy [ Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:58 pm ] |
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I thought we were just a coach away from a flag? 
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| Author: | TruBlueBrad [ Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:02 pm ] |
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As someone mentioned recently here I think to be a genuine threat our forward line needs at least one mid-sized player, in your Nathan Brown mould, capable of kicking mulitiple goals. We have our talls and Eddie crumbing and harassing, but whether its your permanant flanker or if our midfielders can rest up forward and kick goals that would be a handy addition. |
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| Author: | The Duke [ Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:23 pm ] |
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what if....... What if We get Hansen for the defence, steps straight into a KP and TBird is released to gather his 2004 form? What if Bower and Harlette come in and give all we hoped they will? What if Simmo, Murrph, AB, Blackers, Scotland and Stevens tidy up their disposal and start winning clearances like we know they're capable of and share in the goals reguarly? What if AW and Rusty become the classy dashing defenders who can repell with speed and prescision? What if Kouta played another season and had 55mins of game time a week? What if Lance could be used where ever we wanted, rather than needed?? What if Waite progressed and was injury free along with Fish, who has added 8Kg to his frame over summer? What if Fev kicks 100+ and Eddie snags 40 for the year? What if Skinny became that mid sized forward like he was in the early 00s?? Everyting above is possible and that's 19 players from our list. I'm not saying it's a flag team, but its possible and a step in the right direction. |
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| Author: | blueboy8 [ Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:33 pm ] |
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The Duke wrote: what if.......
What if We get Hansen for the defence, steps straight into a KP and TBird is released to gather his 2004 form? What if Bower and Harlette come in and give all we hoped they will? What if Simmo, Murrph, AB, Blackers, Scotland and Stevens tidy up their disposal and start winning clearances like we know they're capable of and share in the goals reguarly? What if AW and Rusty become the classy dashing defenders who can repell with speed and prescision? What if Kouta played another season and had 55mins of game time a week? What if Lance could be used where ever we wanted, rather than needed?? What if Waite progressed and was injury free along with Fish, who has added 8Kg to his frame over summer? What if Fev kicks 100+ and Eddie snags 40 for the year? What if Skinny became that mid sized forward like he was in the early 00s?? Everyting above is possible and that's 19 players from our list. I'm not saying it's a flag team, but its possible and a step in the right direction. Still three players short 
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| Author: | The Duke [ Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
blueboy8 wrote: The Duke wrote: what if....... What if We get Hansen for the defence, steps straight into a KP and TBird is released to gather his 2004 form? What if Bower and Harlette come in and give all we hoped they will? What if Simmo, Murrph, AB, Blackers, Scotland and Stevens tidy up their disposal and start winning clearances like we know they're capable of and share in the goals reguarly? What if AW and Rusty become the classy dashing defenders who can repell with speed and prescision? What if Kouta played another season and had 55mins of game time a week? What if Lance could be used where ever we wanted, rather than needed?? What if Waite progressed and was injury free along with Fish, who has added 8Kg to his frame over summer? What if Fev kicks 100+ and Eddie snags 40 for the year? What if Skinny became that mid sized forward like he was in the early 00s?? Everyting above is possible and that's 19 players from our list. I'm not saying it's a flag team, but its possible and a step in the right direction. Still three players short What if we went back 30 years and just had 19 men
I couldn't think of many up-sides for Barny, Houla, McGrath, ADL, Setanta or carrazzo - I'm sure there are some, though .
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| Author: | Pafloyul [ Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Too many 'ifs' for my liking.
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| Author: | The Duke [ Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
  I forgot the future CHF of the century....
What if JK has an injury free Pre-season and takes 8 contested marks a game inside 50? 
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