Rod Waddell wrote:
mmm......i like DMac. He was the obvious pick the last 2 weeks against Stafford and Rocca. He's still young at 24.
I like Dmac too, but he's too bloody short ...and he's no Jeff White
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| Author: | gerry atric [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Recruiting ruckman |
This weeks rising star Quote: Moran managed 21 disposals, took 10 marks and assisted ruckman David Hale with 10 hitouts, and his performance was so promising it prompted coach Dean Laidley after the game to jokingly lobby for his debuting charge to earn the round's nomination.
The 19-year-old has the size and shape – 200cm tall and 100kg heavy – to play as a ruckman or a key position player and was quick to adapt to the Australian football code after his arrival from England. He was drafted with pick 58 in the 2004 NAB AFL Draft from Southport and has spent this season representing Tasmania in the VFL. Didin't we give up pick 57 for Chambers in the 04 draft? Maybe this kid won't make it, but I'm tipping he may have an even brighter future than Callum at this stage. Let's hope we have learnt our lesson. If we use late draft picks we will end up with a number of delistees and maybe a few diamonds in the rough. I'd be pretty happy to have this guy on the list as a developing ruckman. But hey, we're Carlton, we use late picks to recruit hacks from other clubs.... |
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| Author: | Elwood Blues1 [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recruiting ruckman |
gerry atric wrote: This weeks rising star
Quote: Moran managed 21 disposals, took 10 marks and assisted ruckman David Hale with 10 hitouts, and his performance was so promising it prompted coach Dean Laidley after the game to jokingly lobby for his debuting charge to earn the round's nomination. The 19-year-old has the size and shape – 200cm tall and 100kg heavy – to play as a ruckman or a key position player and was quick to adapt to the Australian football code after his arrival from England. He was drafted with pick 58 in the 2004 NAB AFL Draft from Southport and has spent this season representing Tasmania in the VFL. Didin't we give up pick 57 for Chambers in the 04 draft? Maybe this kid won't make it, but I'm tipping he may have an even brighter future than Callum at this stage. Let's hope we have learnt our lesson. If we use late draft picks we will end up with a number of delistees and maybe a few diamonds in the rough. I'd be pretty happy to have this guy on the list as a developing ruckman. But hey, we're Carlton, we use late picks to recruit hacks from other clubs.... Fair call Gerry..we have recruited bit part ruckman and paid the price and recruiting a kid with a late pick made far more sense than Chambers, Longmuir, Saddington etc....seen Moran play for Tassie....moves well and isnt unco...good skills too for a kid who started late... |
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| Author: | AGRO [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:05 pm ] |
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Don't sweat it we will have one off the International Rookie List soon. |
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| Author: | keogh [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:19 pm ] |
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And Batson as well although I doubt it but from what I have seen I reckon he needs to be added to the list.I cant see French on the list in 2008 and Batson has more potential than McLaren IMO.Aisake is still very light and we can still keep him on the rookie list in 2007. |
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| Author: | Rod Waddell [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:31 pm ] |
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mmm......i like DMac. He was the obvious pick the last 2 weeks against Stafford and Rocca. He's still young at 24. |
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| Author: | budzy [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:35 pm ] |
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Rod Waddell wrote: mmm......i like DMac. He was the obvious pick the last 2 weeks against Stafford and Rocca. He's still young at 24.
I like Dmac too, but he's too bloody short ...and he's no Jeff White
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| Author: | Elwood Blues1 [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:03 pm ] |
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Rod Waddell wrote: mmm......i like DMac. He was the obvious pick the last 2 weeks against Stafford and Rocca. He's still young at 24.
Agree with Rod....Dmac has done the job on Kosi before and Lance was too small for Rocca. I'm surprised Dmac has not been used in defense more often to play on opposing talls.....he wont ever be a No 1 ruckman... |
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| Author: | gerry atric [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 4:21 pm ] |
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Yeah agree with comments on DMac, handy pinch hitter, and all things being equal should have played on Stafford and been insurance on Rocca. Also seems like a really good guy - think he won best clubman at the Lions- Maybe tho he is on a 2 year deal so assured of being here next year and so up till last week Bryan was preferred as he's playing for his future. I thought Batson might be a likely type, good size and good co-ord for big guy, but he doesn't even ruck for the Ants 2s, used mainly as a forward, so I can't see he has a future. 2nd year rookies need to at least be in the Ants 1s. One thing about ruckmen is that they seem hard to pick. Cox and Sandilands were both off the rookie list (I think) and are now the two best going around. I think Aisake is developing nicely as a ruckman but I wish we had drafted Moran so we had two young ruckmen coming through. The annoying thing about Chambers is that he has been on an Afl list for some years before we got him so we should have a much better idea of his chances of making it than a draftee. So given that, it is really annoying when our judgement after we get him is that he is barely worth a game. (Having said that I don't think he has been given much of a go, so again, why draft him). I still have nightmares about swapping the Barry Hall pick for Craig Devonport |
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| Author: | Pickle [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recruiting ruckman |
Elwood Blues1 wrote: gerry atric wrote: This weeks rising star Quote: Moran managed 21 disposals, took 10 marks and assisted ruckman David Hale with 10 hitouts, and his performance was so promising it prompted coach Dean Laidley after the game to jokingly lobby for his debuting charge to earn the round's nomination. The 19-year-old has the size and shape – 200cm tall and 100kg heavy – to play as a ruckman or a key position player and was quick to adapt to the Australian football code after his arrival from England. He was drafted with pick 58 in the 2004 NAB AFL Draft from Southport and has spent this season representing Tasmania in the VFL. Didin't we give up pick 57 for Chambers in the 04 draft? Maybe this kid won't make it, but I'm tipping he may have an even brighter future than Callum at this stage. Let's hope we have learnt our lesson. If we use late draft picks we will end up with a number of delistees and maybe a few diamonds in the rough. I'd be pretty happy to have this guy on the list as a developing ruckman. But hey, we're Carlton, we use late picks to recruit hacks from other clubs.... But according to DP and Hughes "we weren't going to use that pick anyway". Stunning logic for our recruiting staff to justify why we picked Chambers and Saddington a year later! WHY WOULD YOU NOT USE THE LATE PICKS???!!! |
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| Author: | blu944 [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recruiting ruckman |
gerry atric wrote: This weeks rising star
Quote: Moran managed 21 disposals, took 10 marks and assisted ruckman David Hale with 10 hitouts, and his performance was so promising it prompted coach Dean Laidley after the game to jokingly lobby for his debuting charge to earn the round's nomination. The 19-year-old has the size and shape – 200cm tall and 100kg heavy – to play as a ruckman or a key position player and was quick to adapt to the Australian football code after his arrival from England. He was drafted with pick 58 in the 2004 NAB AFL Draft from Southport and has spent this season representing Tasmania in the VFL. Didin't we give up pick 57 for Chambers in the 04 draft? Maybe this kid won't make it, but I'm tipping he may have an even brighter future than Callum at this stage. Let's hope we have learnt our lesson. If we use late draft picks we will end up with a number of delistees and maybe a few diamonds in the rough. I'd be pretty happy to have this guy on the list as a developing ruckman. But hey, we're Carlton, we use late picks to recruit hacks from other clubs.... I wouldn't have got Chambers or Longmuir, given we were after fully developed players and we got 2 mature twigs. But we also traded pick 35 for Heath Scotland, a pick that the Pies used to grab a highly rated young ruckman. Scotland will go close to winning our b+f and Brent Hall is about to be delisted, swings and round-a-bouts. |
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| Author: | gerry atric [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:41 pm ] |
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Quote: Scotland will go close to winning our b+f and Brent Hall is about to be delisted, swings and round-a-bouts.
yeah but with guys who have been in the system for a number of years it shouldn't be so hit and miss. How could we judge Chambers good enough to draft but not good enough to get more than a handful of games. We didn't draft him as an immature 17 year old. He was 25 when we got him and had been in the system for 6 or 7 years. We should get those picks right. If we had drafted a kid he mightn't have made it, but we either didn't know Chambers football well enough, which is totally unprofessional, or we made a bad judgement. And we are not in a position to make bad judgements particulalry on guys who have been in the AfL for 7 years. |
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| Author: | Joe Jazz [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 9:38 pm ] |
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Yeah, D-Mac is too short for a ruckman. So is Bryan. We can only keep one of them long term. I think that D-Mac should be tried down back. We have too many talls in the Bullants and that is why Batson has not been getting a game to ruck in the Bullants one's. Consider that last weekend Irishman Jnr, Bryan, D-Mac and DeLuca were all named in the Bullants team. We have a few ruckman but none of them are any good really. We need to put the Irishman Jnr in a good paddock over the summer and try him in the ruck this year. Saying that, I don't think that we can have him on the rookie list for more than two years can we? If that is the case then we will have to promote him to the senior list. |
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| Author: | preacher [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:23 pm ] |
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In the words of one D Pagan being interviewed on 3AW immediately after the 2004 draft: "I don't like drafting young 18 year old ruckman, they take too long to mature" That year we passed over Cameron Wood, Meesen and Maric opting instead for Russell and Hartlett. I suggest that perhaps this year, we may be looking to negotiate a trade for one of those guys. Go figure. Good one Denis! |
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| Author: | Kouta [ Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:44 pm ] |
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preacher wrote: In the words of one D Pagan being interviewed on 3AW immediately after the 2004 draft:
"I don't like drafting young 18 year old ruckman, they take too long to mature" That year we passed over Cameron Wood, Meesen and Maric opting instead for Russell and Hartlett. I suggest that perhaps this year, we may be looking to negotiate a trade for one of those guys. Go figure. Good one Denis! We didn't overlook Meesen and he drafted Hale at pick 7 in the 2001 draft. The 2004 draft in order. Round 1 Richmond - Brett Deledio (Mur) Hawthorn - Jarryd Roughead (Gip) Western Bulldogs - Ryan Griffen (SA) Richmond - Richard Tambling (NT) Hawthorn - Lance Franklin (WA) Western Bulldogs - Tom Williams (Qld) Hawthorn - Jordan Lewis (Gee) Adelaide - John Meesen (Gee) Carlton - Jordan Russell (SA) Collingwood - Chris Egan (Mur) Though I find this comment from 2004 perplexing if Wayne Hughes went into that draft with his heart set on Russell. Our new number two. [quote]Up until days before the Draft, there was still a lot of conjecture behind our selection in the public domain, but it appears as though Carlton had picked their man early. “On the Wednesday before the draft, Wayne Hughes the Carlton recruiting guy gave me a call, and said ‘We are definitely going to take you with our pick #9, regardless of what else happens.’ You can’t always be sure about these things but it was great to feel that I was a big chance of going at #9.†|
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| Author: | Pafloyul [ Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:03 am ] |
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Let's not stray from the original point gerry atric made. I have no problems with mistakes in hindsight if the logic was sound to begin with. However, Mr atric is right in his concerns. Like I said in a different thread. We should be trying to rebuild. A youngster who could be anything is a better bet than an older player with even more question marks. |
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| Author: | Pafloyul [ Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:15 am ] |
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I will just add that the point of this thread is not the fact that we missed out on a ruckman but the fact that we seemed to have the pig-headed attitude that any recycled player that vaguely fits a 'need' is better than taking a chance with a late draft pick on a player with a bigger pay-off. There is much more to drafting than hoping to have a couple of picks in the top twenty. |
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| Author: | spf [ Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:19 am ] |
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Quote: Moran managed 21 disposals, took 10 marks and assisted ruckman David Hale with 10 hitouts,
Didn't Chris Bryan have a debut similar to this? Admittedly no Rising Star Nomination (to old I think) but pretty impressive first up. On DMac I agree we should try him in defence, in my mind Prendergast and DMac are vying for the same spot. Prendergast is a good runner, DMac is a better ruck and probably more chance to play defence. |
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| Author: | Pafloyul [ Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:22 am ] |
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spf wrote: Didn't Chris Bryan have a debut similar to this? Admittedly no Rising Star Nomination (to old I think) but pretty impressive first up.
Moran is about 19, only played around two-thirds of the match and hadn't played football untill he was about 14. 
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| Author: | spf [ Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:31 am ] |
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Pafloyul wrote: spf wrote: Didn't Chris Bryan have a debut similar to this? Admittedly no Rising Star Nomination (to old I think) but pretty impressive first up. Moran is about 19, only played about two-thirds of the match and hadn't played football untill he was about 14. I think the point I was making is that we did recruit someone to ruck for us (he may not be big enough) but certainly more aggressive than what we had (DeLuca). We haven't given him an extended run. Chris Bryan was a good VFL ruckman and had quite a bit of form behind him when we took him. I personally don't care wether or not he'll turn into a Premiership winning ruckman, I'm more concerned with someone holding down the position of either 1st ruck or permanent 2nd ruck consistently to start with and worry about the longer term stuff later. Aisake or another may prove the solution there but won't be ready for some time. If we can develop a solid 1st and 2nd ruck combination out of Chris Bryan and Barnaby French (or De Luca), then whoever ultimately dislodges them from the team will probably go on to be that Premiership ruckman we've been waiting for. They will have earned it not inherited it. |
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| Author: | kennyhunter [ Wed Aug 30, 2006 12:45 am ] |
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Moran got a fairly easy go first up. Hawks didn't pay him much attention and gave him room to do his own thing, to a degree. Started the year very well in the VFL but was very quiet mid-year. |
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