TalkingCarlton :: View topic - WCE Premiership: Taking over from the Blues?

Ahem, since West Coast and Brisbane entered the competition in 1987 we have won 2 flags. :wink:

AGRO wrote:

Ahem, since West Coast and Brisbane entered the competition in 1987 we have won 2 flags. :wink:

We could be even cheekier and count 1982 as well. :-D

Oops - you got me a good one there, Molsey - I didn't consider that it was the official line that records be kept and carried over.

...

Here box, box, box - come and wrap me in your tender though confined space

HTP wrote:

And stay there!

ps Agro... when did we officially become the AFL? Was it when the Crows joined?

molsey wrote:

HTP wrote:

And stay there!

ps Agro... when did we officially become the AFL? Was it when the Crows joined?

The first year the AFL was known as the AFL was in 1990 - however this was only because it took a few years for the VFL to negotiate with a guy called John Adams who was a North Melbourne Board Member - who actually owned the name "Australian Football League".

AFAIC the AFL really starts from 1987 when Brisbane and West Coast joined the competition - and as Jarusa alludes in 1982 when South Melbourne became the Sydney Swans. :wink:

The first year the AFL was known as the AFL was in 1990

OK - back for more punishment ...

how long has ... uh ... whaddya call it ... State of Origin been around? If the VFL was that strong a league I would have thought the Vics would be unbeatable

Oh shit, I just realised Jarusa's list was interstate players at Carlton only - meaning there were interstate players at other Vic clubs as well. Meaning interstate origin teams may have been made up entirely of interstate players playing for VFL clubs

Right, carry on then

Rather dark in here - must bring a candle next time - and a nice cup of tea

AGRO wrote:

The first year the AFL was known as the AFL was in 1990

Can't help you there, AGRO. For some reason that year has been completely wiped from my memory :wink:

(apart from Grant kicking 50 goals as a 17yo and Libba winning the Brownlow - oh and actually having a club to support).

All in all a terrible year 1990: hair metal ruled the airwaves and the filth won the flag.

Can the Dogs' 9 VFA premierships from the 1892 to 1924 be added retrospectively to our list of premierships?? :oops:

Author:	molsey [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:04 am ]
Post subject:	WCE Premiership: Taking over from the Blues?
I must admit I rely a little too much on our history when firing back at moronic fans of other Clubs with their p!ssweak gibes at our Club. One of my biggest arguments was always 'well, we're the most successful'... given the 16 premierships albeit the most recent was over a decade ago. With the win on the weekend, the Eagles are arguably more successful than us now with 3 premierships in 20 years as distinct from 16 in 110... http://www.blueseum.org/cfc/tiki-index. ... remiership Must have been magnificent following the Blues in the 70's / 80's...

Author:	HTP [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:37 am ]
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I've never understood this argument. The Blues were successful in the VFL - just like Port were successful in the SANFL (or whatever it was). To say we're the most successful AFL side is a dream - we've won one premiership (or is that two?) in the AFL and probably have the least, or close to the least, finals appearances. I stand corrected on that one but you get my point Certainly our recent record of 16, 16, 10(?), 15 & 16 suggests we're a bottom feeder in the AFL. I prefer to separate the two leagues into Victorian Football League & Australian Football League - regardless of how good the VFL might have been. I personally find it a bit desparate to suggest we're the greatest AFL team when we were only any good in the local state comp. Blasphemy, I know - but then again I'm new to the game and have only seen us win something like 50 games so I guess I don't bear the burden of having seen a successful Carlton (and the subsequent desire to hang on to our greatness)

Author:	Jarusa [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:43 am ]
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The VFL was a quasi-national comp in the respect that it attracted a lot of the best players from around the country and had been for decades. If you just isolate the history of Carlton, the club was recruiting players from as far away as Western Australia in the early 1900's. And has ben constantly sourcing players from all parts of the country ever since. Don't discount Carlton's 16 premierships. The VFL might not have had the SA mentality of putting an N (National) in their league name but it had far more right to be known as the VNFL than the SANFL ever did.

Author:	molsey [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:05 am ]
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Wow, HTP, I've only ever heard that from Port fans before! The VFL became the AFL and all of our records prior to that point became official AFL records. Call it the 'power of incumbency' given the expansion of our competition to include those of others. Our competition became the national competition and others were included therein, not the other way around. Since that time, we've won 1 premiership and been woeful for 5 years. Some say we have failed to consider the true impact of the national compeition and the consequential policy required to even up that competition. I think that's a fair criticism and we are living through it now. But the Blues 15 VFL premierships stand and our joint record with the Bombers was the premier record to that point in time. If anything, the Blueseum analysis provided shows off your point - its more about premierships whilst in the competition, and although we have a carry forward benefit, we're no longer top of the tree. Eagles with 3 in 20 years is a phenomenal record of success.

Author:	Jarusa [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:06 am ]
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Interstate Players in Carlton Premiership sides 1906 George Bruce (SA) 1907 George Bruce (SA) Martin Gotz (WA) Harvey Kelly (WA) 1908 George Bruce (SA) Arthur Ford (WA) Martin Gotz (WA) Harvey Kelly (WA) 1915 George Challis (Tas) Vin Valentine (Tas) 1947 George Bailey (WA) Ern Henfry (WA) 1968 Brent Crosswell (Tas) Alex Jesaulenko (ACT) Peter Jones (Tas) 1970 Brent Crosswell (Tas) Syd Jackson (WA) Alex Jesaulenko (ACT) Peter Jones (Tas) Bert Thornley (WA) 1972 Syd Jackson (WA) Alex Jesaulenko (ACT) Peter Jones (Tas) 1979 Mike Fitzpatrick (WA) Alex Jesaulenko (ACT) Peter Jones (Tas) Robbert Klomp (SA) Mark Maclure (NSW) Michael Young (Tas) 1981 Peter Bosustow (WA) Mike Fitzpatrick (WA) Ken Hunter (WA) Mark Maclure (NSW) Phil Maylin (SA) 1982 Peter Bosustow (WA) Ross Ditchburn (WA) Mike Fitzpatrick (WA) Ken Hunter (WA) Robbert Klomp (SA) Mark Maclure (NSW) Phil Maylin (SA) 1987 Craig Bradley (SA) Richard Dennis (WA) Jon Dorotich (WA) Ken Hunter (WA) Stephen Kernahan (SA) Mark Naley (SA) 1995 Craig Bradley (SA) Scott Camporeale (SA) Matt Clape (WA) Stephen Kernahan (SA) Andrew McKay (SA) Earl Spalding (WA)

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Author:	AGRO [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:07 am ]
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Ahem, since West Coast and Brisbane entered the competition in 1987 we have won 2 flags.

Author:	Jarusa [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:08 am ]
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AGRO wrote: Ahem, since West Coast and Brisbane entered the competition in 1987 we have won 2 flags. We could be even cheekier and count 1982 as well.

Author:	AGRO [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:12 am ]
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Jarusa wrote: AGRO wrote: Ahem, since West Coast and Brisbane entered the competition in 1987 we have won 2 flags. We could be even cheekier and count 1982 as well. I tried that once before in another thread and I was howled down.

Author:	HTP [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:13 am ]
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Yep - fair comment, J And I don't mean to discount the VFL flags - I just don't hang my hat on 'em. Whatever way you dress the VFL up, it was a vastly different beast to the capped and drafty system we're using now. I guess I'm not the kinda guy to say "Well, look how many spoons you've won", and "We're winningest team in history (apart from Essendon* who also happen to have the same number of flags)". It must be an Australian thing Oh ok, I'll concede equal most successful flag winning team in AFL / VFL history. As long as Port is allowed to say most successful team in SANFL / AFL history And Sydney can be most successful NSW Australian Football Team in history And Brisbane can be most successful team in AFL 16 team format history ever Now I'm just being silly

Author:	HTP [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:16 am ]
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Oops - you got me a good one there, Molsey - I didn't consider that it was the official line that records be kept and carried over. ... Here box, box, box - come and wrap me in your tender though confined space

Author:	AGRO [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:19 am ]
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AFL FLAGS SINCE 1987 3 - BRISBANE 3 - HAWTHORN 3 - WEST COAST 2 - CARLTON 2 - ADELAIDE 2 - NORTH MELBOURNE 2 - Essendon* 1 - PORT ADELAIDE 1 - SYDNEY 1 - COLLLINGWOOD

Author:	molsey [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:22 am ]
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HTP wrote: Oops - you got me a good one there, Molsey - I didn't consider that it was the official line that records be kept and carried over. ... Here box, box, box - come and wrap me in your tender though confined space And stay there! ps Agro... when did we officially become the AFL? Was it when the Crows joined?

Author:	tommi [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:28 am ]
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Ahhhh........... you guys are fun.........playing so nicely........! kindest regards tommi pleasecarryon............!

Author:	AGRO [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:28 am ]
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molsey wrote: HTP wrote: Oops - you got me a good one there, Molsey - I didn't consider that it was the official line that records be kept and carried over. ... Here box, box, box - come and wrap me in your tender though confined space And stay there! ps Agro... when did we officially become the AFL? Was it when the Crows joined? The first year the AFL was known as the AFL was in 1990 - however this was only because it took a few years for the VFL to negotiate with a guy called John Adams who was a North Melbourne Board Member - who actually owned the name "Australian Football League". AFAIC the AFL really starts from 1987 when Brisbane and West Coast joined the competition - and as Jarusa alludes in 1982 when South Melbourne became the Sydney Swans.

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Author:	bondiblue [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:33 am ]
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When the 12 VFL teams voted to embrace other states in a National competition, it was agreed by all clubs/franchises that the VFL, (as the foundation league of the National competition), would honour every premiership won by VFL clubs in the past 80 years; and so it is fixed in concrete. This has also been accepted by all the new interstate clubs who have joined the AFL since 1982, and is deemed as part of its history. Some may choose to look at the past for comfort, some consider the recent flags as just as important to them. It's all about glory. Less we forget.

Author:	Kaptain Kouta [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:38 am ]
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AGRO wrote: molsey wrote: HTP wrote: Oops - you got me a good one there, Molsey - I didn't consider that it was the official line that records be kept and carried over. ... Here box, box, box - come and wrap me in your tender though confined space And stay there! ps Agro... when did we officially become the AFL? Was it when the Crows joined? The first year the AFL was known as the AFL was in 1990 - however this was only because it took a few years for the VFL to negotiate with a guy called John Adams who was a North Melbourne Board Member - who actually owned the name "Australian Football League". AFAIC the AFL really starts from 1987 when Brisbane and West Coast joined the competition - and as Jarusa alludes in 1982 when South Melbourne became the Sydney Swans. And the Swans played a couple of "Home" matches at the SCG, IIRC in 1981, so can we count that year too?

Author:	Sedat [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:41 am ]
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AGRO wrote: The first year the AFL was known as the AFL was in 1990 Can't help you there, AGRO. For some reason that year has been completely wiped from my memory (apart from Grant kicking 50 goals as a 17yo and Libba winning the Brownlow - oh and actually having a club to support). All in all a terrible year 1990: hair metal ruled the airwaves and the filth won the flag. Can the Dogs' 9 VFA premierships from the 1892 to 1924 be added retrospectively to our list of premierships??

Author:	HTP [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:02 am ]
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OK - back for more punishment ... how long has ... uh ... whaddya call it ... State of Origin been around? If the VFL was that strong a league I would have thought the Vics would be unbeatable Oh shit, I just realised Jarusa's list was interstate players at Carlton only - meaning there were interstate players at other Vic clubs as well. Meaning interstate origin teams may have been made up entirely of interstate players playing for VFL clubs Right, carry on then Rather dark in here - must bring a candle next time - and a nice cup of tea

Author:	Kaptain Kouta [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:03 am ]
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HTP wrote: OK - back for more punishment ... how long has ... uh ... whaddya call it ... State of Origin been around? If the VFL was that strong a league I would have thought the Vics would be unbeatable Oh shit, I just realised Jarusa's list was interstate players at Carlton only - meaning there were interstate players at other Vic clubs as well. Meaning interstate origin teams may have been made up entirely of interstate players playing for VFL clubs Right, carry on then Rather dark in here - must bring a candle next time - and a nice cup of tea HTP, given that's twice in the same thread.....are you in a box inside a box?

Author:	AGRO [ Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:07 am ]
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Sedat wrote: AGRO wrote: The first year the AFL was known as the AFL was in 1990 Can't help you there, AGRO. For some reason that year has been completely wiped from my memory (apart from Grant kicking 50 goals as a 17yo and Libba winning the Brownlow - oh and actually having a club to support). All in all a terrible year 1990: hair metal ruled the airwaves and the filth won the flag. Can the Dogs' 9 VFA premierships from the 1892 to 1924 be added retrospectively to our list of premierships?? Only one I might give you is your 1924 Premiership - as you then played "The Scum" in a game billed as deciding the State Champions and you guys actually won - which goes to show that "The Scum" have always been a pack duds.