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Carlton is cancer-riddled
http://talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13000		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  simonverbeek [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:52 am ]
Post subject:  Carlton is cancer-riddled
http://www.theage.com.au/realfooty/news ... 31567.html

I have just read the above article and I am in shock.

Until 6 years ago we had never really lost a player we wanted to keep. Now Carlton is like a flower prison and the inmates are all trying to escape.

What the hell is going on? I really am at a loss to explain this. These guys get paid well to play footy and hang out with 40 decent blokes. How bad can it be at the club.

Honestly, realistically, how bad can it be?

Denis didn't rape Russell and Thornton behind the heatley stand did he? he doesn't make them dig trenches in frozen Siberian tundra.

What I'm getting at is:

1) Why are people trying to run away from Carlton (it's not as simple as we're shit, there have been shit teams before).
2) Is it the club, or are these kids softcocks (I'm not mad about denis but he isn't a psychopathic sadist either)?

We need to build a young group and KEEP THEM TOGETHER. Russell and Thronton aren't brilliant, but Russell is one of the few on the list that can kick straight, and thornton is one of few defenders. THEY ARE REQUIRED. THEY WANT OUT.

WHY?

WHY?

WHY?


This is a cancer.
Author:  mjonc [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:56 am ]
Post subject: 
JR is a mummies boy and wants to go back home. Plain and simple no problem.

Thornton is just a money hungry prick, but you can read that in the 100+ pages on him.

Pagan according to the OX on this site had no problem with Pagan only the contract offered. JR probably has an issues as he had minimal game time when in the seniors and lacks the hard at the contest mentality favoured by Pagan.
Author:  simonverbeek [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:04 am ]
Post subject: 
mjonc wrote:
JR is a mummies boy and wants to go back home. Plain and simple no problem.

Thornton is just a money hungry prick, but you can read that in the 100+ pages on him.

Pagan according to the OX on this site had no problem with Pagan only the contract offered. JR probably has an issues as he had minimal game time when in the seniors and lacks the hard at the contest mentality favoured by Pagan.


I reckon there's more to it than that.

Thornton's contract was matched. He still wants out. And you don't change clubs because they didn't negotiate how you would've liked (unless you're nuts). And Russell...this one's worse. OK, denis doesn't play kids much...but farrrrk....to demand in such strong language that you're walking. And he can kick (all winter i tear my hair out about players that can't kick)

You need your playing group unioted and committed and wnating to be together. There's no bond. no spirit. Carlton is terminally ill.

THIS IS A CANCER.
Author:  TheBluesMuse [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:05 am ]
Post subject: 
There were always question marks in my mind about his courage and commitment.....

Our game's a tough sport though.....

simonverbeek wrote:
You need your playing group unioted and committed and wnating to be together. There's no bond. no spirit. Carlton is terminally ill.

THIS IS A CANCER.


There's a @#$%&! bond allright, it just doesn't include JR or Thornton, so it seems.


Did you see the way they carried on after the Melbourne victory? Walks, Scotto and Fev doing there funny little hand gestures and whatnot. We have quite a bulk of our list in a tight bond I think....but in our crappy situation I think there will be some who can't handle it ...we just need more who can.
Author:  4thchicken [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:45 am ]
Post subject: 
mjonc wrote:
JR is a mummies boy and wants to go back home. Plain and simple no problem.



if thats the case, then our recruiting department should be shot for wasting a 1st round pick without doing proper due diligence on the mental state of the guy. Somehow I think there are factors other than just mommy's boy syndrome...
Author:  fjanyc [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:34 am ]
Post subject: 
I thought the big thing about him at the time we drafted him was that he was a "high character" guy! Unbelievable. Seems like there is more at play here.
Author:  Wolfe [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:24 am ]
Post subject: 
i wrote pretty much what is causing these problems and to be honest cant blame these players this is the fault of the club / admin / coaching panel

if any of this makes sense
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12971

but until this club puts forward a vision plan offers stability and is united we risk loosing much more valuable players than russelll or Thornton
Author:  The Tyrant [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:00 am ]
Post subject: 
I tipped this!

SV, put on this track, close your eyes, and all will be well.........

SCORPION!!!!! wrote:

Winds of Change

I follow the Moskva
Down to Gorky Park
Listening to the wind of change
An August summer night
Soldiers passing by
Listening to the wind of change

The world is closing in
Did you ever think
That we could be so close, like brothers
The future's in the air
I can feel it everywhere
Blowing with the wind of change

Take me to the magic of the moment
On a glory night
Where the children of tomorrow dream away
in the wind of change

Walking down the street
Distant memories
Are buried in the past forever
I follow the Moskva
Down to Gorky Park
Listening to the wind of change

Take me to the magic of the moment
On a glory night
Where the children of tomorrow share their dreams
With you and me
Take me to the magic of the moment
On a glory night
Where the children of tomorrow dream away
in the wind of change

The wind of change
Blows straight into the face of time
Like a stormwind that will ring the freedom bell
For peace of mind
Let your balalaika sing
What my guitar wants to say

Take me to the magic of the moment
On a glory night
Where the children of tomorrow share their dreams
With you and me
Take me to the magic of the moment
On a glory night
Where the children of tomorrow dream away
in the wind of change


WON'T IT?????

Thornton and Russell are just collateral damage from this administration and coach who are an inch away from being replaced. If we can get some good picks for them it won't be so bad..... if nothing happens to the board and coach out of this, then its time to worry.

Losing Thornton isn't so bad if we get a decent pick and, Polak with a decent coach who can give him some confidence and fix him up.

Russell was [REDACTED] over badly by Denis and has every right to leave. Russell is a result of Denis' sticky-tape approach to development and communicating to young players. He'll be a loss, but a second round pick would have been enough, and AT LEAST now if we pick up some speedsters in this draft they won't have him in their way.

Those 2 are collateral from the "winds of change" blowing through and clearing out this "cancerous culture" as you put it. I have a bit of faith that that will happen.

Besides, John Longmire is available now :wink: [/quote]
Author:  mikkey [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:20 am ]
Post subject: 
Seems to me this points to issues with the management (contract management), football department (lack of player welfare), maybe coach (not as sure about it as others) and especially the Board (lack of leadership, cutting the football department to the bone).

The only good news is that this scenario will be the last straw and a Board challenge will come sooner. Clealrly if nothing is done there is a big chance we loose even more youngsters next year and we will be doomed.

I am depressed.....
Author:  The Tyrant [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:31 am ]
Post subject: 
mikkey wrote:
Seems to me this points to issues with the management (contract management), football department (lack of player welfare), maybe coach (not as sure about it as others) and especially the Board (lack of leadership, cutting the football department to the bone).

The only good news is that this scenario will be the last straw and a Board challenge will come sooner. Clealrly if nothing is done there is a big chance we loose even more youngsters next year and we will be doomed.

I am depressed.....


exactly.... we're staring at a fork in our club's life-line

1) the Fitzroy road
2) the path to repair

Fitzroy had no option because they had no money, support or resources to repair themselves.

we have, out there, enough supporters who have money, and the league has a stronger support mechanism (ie resources) to help clubs help themselves.

if we go down 2) it won't be TOO long before we're a powerhouse on the field... maybe 4-5 years given how many great young players we've recruited/about to recruit.

road 1) (ie, the "do nothing" scenario) and we'll just be digging the hole deeper and deeper and lose more players, more spoons and go broke

I reckon the league might have leaked that stuff about Jim Watts' review for our own good. I hope they leak some more and Caro writes a full page article on it. Every level of administration at this club needs a massive shakeup: from board, to executive to football.

And it'll probably have to happen in that order. It sound like the board shake-up is on the go now.... THEN its only a matter of time before Malouf is replaced, and Pagan is gone.

Worst case Pagan is replaced at the end of next year, BEFORE there's time for Murphy et.al for crack the shits and walk out :wink:

Best we can hope for now, I think, is that we get some decent picks for Thornton (a first or couple of second rounders won't suck), a good pick for Russell..... get a bit of a win with Polak, and Synbad and GWS and the barflies at Percy's keep poking the beast :wink:

I've been through shock and now I'm into acceptance mode.... until the shock of the board surviving kicks in in december/march and I lose it again :wink:
Author:  Sydney Blue [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:50 am ]
Post subject: 
Simon players have been bailing out of this club since the end of 2002 when Pagan arrived so why are you so surprised now that Russell and Thorton want to leave

Bradley
Allen
Murphy
Hickmont
Beaumont
Mckernan
Camporeale
Mackay
Manton

To name a few

others have tried

Fevola
Whitnal
Lappin

so unless something is done pretty soon you will find even more wanting to bail out

but dont forget Pagan has changed the culture of the club :roll: :roll: :roll:
Author:  ScottSaunders [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:05 am ]
Post subject: 
whilst disappointed to lose Russell

if we get Deluca or Salopek out of the deal then its not a total lost.

I am keen on Deluca to come becuase he brings us something we sorely lack at the moment and that is real ruckmen.

having said that, if Jordan stays i am happy with that as well.

but if we get salopek or deluca out of the deal - then it isnt a total loss

p.s. add to that, we have to get past this notion that players stay with Carlton - alot has changed in football over the last few years. It is no longer the clubs that they where, and that is all included, it is a business, the sooner we all accept that the better we will be able to understand the reasons for players moving on.

to be honest, players that stay with the one club will be rare these days IMO - sure you will get some, but alot will move around as clubs try and do what is best for them
Author:  CarltonClem [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:10 am ]
Post subject: 
If Salopek is contracted (and he is according to the Age), and he doesn't want to leave, then we can't get him.

He's gone for nothing IMO and this one is Pagan's doing (if I'm correct in reading between the lines of some posters...)
Author:  Dukes [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:13 am ]
Post subject: 
CarltonClem wrote:
If Salopek is contracted (and he is according to the Age), and he doesn't want to leave, then we can't get him.

He's gone for nothing IMO and this one is Pagan's doing (if I'm correct in reading between the lines of some posters...)


There's no evidence its Pagan's fault.
Author:  The Tyrant [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:13 am ]
Post subject: 
Russell for port's pick 23

Thornton and pick 23 to Essendon* for 18, 20 and 36

Pick 36 to Freo for Polak

GONE: Russell and Thornton
GOT: Polak, 18 and 20

:?:
Author:  Sydney Blue [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:18 am ]
Post subject: 
Dukes wrote:
CarltonClem wrote:
If Salopek is contracted (and he is according to the Age), and he doesn't want to leave, then we can't get him.

He's gone for nothing IMO and this one is Pagan's doing (if I'm correct in reading between the lines of some posters...)


There's no evidence its Pagan's fault.


You just dont get it do you dukes

Anything that happens is Pagans fault :lol:

Now will you get with the program FFS
Author:  Speedy [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:21 am ]
Post subject: 
Dukes wrote:
CarltonClem wrote:
If Salopek is contracted (and he is according to the Age), and he doesn't want to leave, then we can't get him.

He's gone for nothing IMO and this one is Pagan's doing (if I'm correct in reading between the lines of some posters...)


There's no evidence its Pagan's fault.


That's it - keep your head firmly in the sand. I supose Pagan has nothing to do with Thornton either?
Author:  Crusader [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:21 am ]
Post subject: 
The rats are always the first ones off the ship...
Author:  Crusader [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:25 am ]
Post subject: 
The Tyrant wrote:
Russell for port's pick 23

Thornton and pick 23 to Essendon* for 18, 20 and 36

Pick 36 to Freo for Polak

GONE: Russell and Thornton
GOT: Polak, 18 and 20

:?:


GONE: Sense of realism
GOT: A stiffy over the thought of that deal
Author:  Speakers [ Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Pagan according to the OX on this site had no problem with Pagan only the contract offered


Well I'm glad Pagan doesn't have a problem with Pagan 8)
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