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Dredging up history: Salary Cap Penalties
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Author:  molsey [ Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Dredging up history: Salary Cap Penalties
Hi all

Sorry about this but I was wanting to put together a factual article together for the Blueseum in relation to the 2002 and 2003 national drafts and the impact of the salary cap penalties on the list. Specifically, I wanted to point out the penalties but I didn't want it to be an opinion piece.

My memory tells me that we lost the following:

2002: Priority Pick #1, First Round Pick (Nominal #2), Second Round Pick (#eighteen) (which given it was traded for French was allowed) ...AND Third Round Pick (Nominal #34); Banned from Pre-Season Draft
2003: First and Second Round Picks; Also not allowed to trade into those rounds for picks (ie couldnt trade a player for such picks) [Allowed full access to 2004 Pre-Season, 2003 Rookie Drafts + Priority Picks]

Questions:
2002: Given Simmo was #45, I gather some teams only had 3 picks and that's why there aren't 16 placed between 34 and 45?
2002: Seems we were allowed into the Rookie Draft?
2002: Were we formally banned from the 2003PSD or were we just full of salary cap?

Also, if any of you havegood links to newspaper or opinion articles at the time it may be useful.

Thanks for your help,

M
Author:  Siegfried [ Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think you're spot on with the ND and Priority picks, not sure about the others though.
Author:  Jarusa [ Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
This is probably the best single source of information about the news surrounding the events leading up to and after black friday.

http://footystats.freeservers.com/Speci ... risis.html
(Start from the bottom of the page)

A must read for anyone researching this part of our history.
Author:  camel [ Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
Here's some background stuff molsey … just make sure you're in a bloody good mood first, because you'll feel like crap after reading these. :(

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/arti ... 17248.html

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/arti ... 96011.html
Author:  AGRO [ Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dredging up history: Salary Cap Penalties
molsey wrote:
2002: Seems we were allowed into the Rookie Draft?
2002:



My understanding is that they were so busy reaming us rotten without the benefit of any lubrication - that "The Spew" and the Commission actually forgot to suspend us from the Rookie Draft that year. :roll:
Author:  AGRO [ Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
camelboy wrote:
Here's some background stuff molsey … just make sure you're in a bloody good mood first, because you'll feel like crap after reading these. :(

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/arti ... 17248.html

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/arti ... 96011.html



And people had a go at me for not wishing Ron Evans a speedy recovery. :roll:
Author:  RoK [ Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
AGRO wrote:
camelboy wrote:
Here's some background stuff molsey … just make sure you're in a bloody good mood first, because you'll feel like crap after reading these. :(

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/arti ... 17248.html

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/arti ... 96011.html



And people had a go at me for not wishing Ron Evans a speedy recovery. :roll:


Speedy? recovery? i hope the C@#T dies the sack of shit he is.
Author:  AGRO [ Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
RoK wrote:
AGRO wrote:
camelboy wrote:
Here's some background stuff molsey … just make sure you're in a bloody good mood first, because you'll feel like crap after reading these. :(

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/arti ... 17248.html

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/arti ... 96011.html



And people had a go at me for not wishing Ron Evans a speedy recovery. :roll:


Speedy? recovery? i hope the C@#T dies the sack of shit he is.


I can finish that off for you as your on 2 warnings I'm only on one. :twisted:
Author:  Rod Waddell [ Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
Reading those articles has reminded me of why we are so far behind the eight ball. One stumble after another we are basically trying to stay afloat.
Author:  bluehammer [ Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
We really need the old TBV EZBoard archived for the full impact.

Camel went from 3000 posts to 262,000 posts in the space of 6 hours.
Author:  The Tyrant [ Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dredging up history: Salary Cap Penalties
molsey wrote:
Hi all

Sorry about this but I was wanting to put together a factual article together for the Blueseum in relation to the 2002 and 2003 national drafts and the impact of the salary cap penalties on the list. Specifically, I wanted to point out the penalties but I didn't want it to be an opinion piece.

My memory tells me that we lost the following:

2002: Priority Pick #1, First Round Pick (Nominal #2), Second Round Pick (#eighteen) (which given it was traded for French was allowed) ...AND Third Round Pick (Nominal #34); Banned from Pre-Season Draft
2003: First and Second Round Picks; Also not allowed to trade into those rounds for picks (ie couldnt trade a player for such picks) [Allowed full access to 2004 Pre-Season, 2003 Rookie Drafts + Priority Picks]

Questions:
2002: Given Simmo was #45, I gather some teams only had 3 picks and that's why there aren't 16 placed between 34 and 45?
2002: Seems we were allowed into the Rookie Draft?
2002: Were we formally banned from the 2003PSD or were we just full of salary cap?

Also, if any of you havegood links to newspaper or opinion articles at the time it may be useful.

Thanks for your help,

M


You're right with that, Molsey, as I remember it

Questions:
2002: Given Simmo was #45, I gather some teams only had 3 picks and that's why there aren't 16 placed between 34 and 45? Yep, think so
2002: Seems we were allowed into the Rookie Draft? Yep.. we picked Jon McCormick with pick 12002: Were we formally banned from the 2003PSD or were we just full of salary cap?not formally banned in 2003. Must have just not participated
Author:  Wolfister [ Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
We picked up Stevens in the 2003 PSD didn't we?

We finsihed second bottom in 2003- the Bulldogs picked Rawlings and we got Stevens?
Author:  molsey [ Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Wolfister wrote:
We picked up Stevens in the 2003 PSD didn't we?

We finsihed second bottom in 2003- the Bulldogs picked Rawlings and we got Stevens?


Nomenclature...could be my mistake.

We picked up Stevens at the PSD just before the 2004 season. Stevens has had 3 years with us...is that the 2004 PSD or the 2003 PSD?

To me the 2003 PSD is the one just before the 2003 season in which case it seems we didnt pick up anyone. Reading through those press articles though and it seems the reason why is because we were already AUD1.7M over the cap and needed 9 players to take huge paycuts...
Author:  Wolfister [ Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
molsey wrote:
Wolfister wrote:
We picked up Stevens in the 2003 PSD didn't we?

We finsihed second bottom in 2003- the Bulldogs picked Rawlings and we got Stevens?


Nomenclature...could be my mistake.

We picked up Stevens at the PSD just before the 2004 season. Stevens has had 3 years with us...is that the 2004 PSD or the 2003 PSD?

To me the 2003 PSD is the one just before the 2003 season in which case it seems we didnt pick up anyone. Reading through those press articles though and it seems the reason why is because we were already AUD1.7M over the cap and needed 9 players to take huge paycuts...


If it's that one (one prior to the 2003 season), I was pretty sure we were ruled out of it too. I remember thinking that the penalties (effectively) cost us Goddard, Wells, Powell and McLean (plus a second rounder in the Cooney/Walker draft).
Author:  Blue Vain [ Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Dredging up history: Salary Cap Penalties
The Tyrant wrote:
molsey wrote:
Hi all

Sorry about this but I was wanting to put together a factual article together for the Blueseum in relation to the 2002 and 2003 national drafts and the impact of the salary cap penalties on the list. Specifically, I wanted to point out the penalties but I didn't want it to be an opinion piece.

My memory tells me that we lost the following:

2002: Priority Pick #1, First Round Pick (Nominal #2), Second Round Pick (#eighteen) (which given it was traded for French was allowed) ...AND Third Round Pick (Nominal #34); Banned from Pre-Season Draft
2003: First and Second Round Picks; Also not allowed to trade into those rounds for picks (ie couldnt trade a player for such picks) [Allowed full access to 2004 Pre-Season, 2003 Rookie Drafts + Priority Picks]

Questions:
2002: Given Simmo was #45, I gather some teams only had 3 picks and that's why there aren't 16 placed between 34 and 45?
2002: Seems we were allowed into the Rookie Draft?
2002: Were we formally banned from the 2003PSD or were we just full of salary cap?

Also, if any of you havegood links to newspaper or opinion articles at the time it may be useful.

Thanks for your help,

M


You're right with that, Molsey, as I remember it

Questions:
2002: Given Simmo was #45, I gather some teams only had 3 picks and that's why there aren't 16 placed between 34 and 45? Yep, think so
2002: Seems we were allowed into the Rookie Draft? Yep.. we picked Jon McCormick with pick 12002: Were we formally banned from the 2003PSD or were we just full of salary cap?not formally banned in 2003. Must have just not participated


We traded pick 16 to Port. Remember there were only 15 teams picking each round. The first pick of round 3 was number 31.
Author:  slow_mo [ Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
camelboy wrote:
Here's some background stuff molsey … just make sure you're in a bloody good mood first, because you'll feel like crap after reading these. :(

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/arti ... 17248.html

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/arti ... 96011.html


Gee, reading those articles again makes me feel ill.... you were right CB :(

It kind of reminded me of how I felt when it all actually happened. It felt like the world as I knew it had crumbled around me....

Premiership #17 will be the sweetest EVER!!!
Author:  buzzaaaah [ Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
2002 PSD (before 2003 season) we were banned from participating. We were over the salry cap anyway.If you remember, Collo had to slice 10-15% of everyone's salary to keep us under the cap.
Author:  molsey [ Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
My research indicates that we had 3 penalties prior to the Black Friday ones:

* ?????

* Determined in 1998; $43,820 fine + PSD disqualification

* Determined in 2000 relating to the 1998 and 1999 years; fines + picks(part suspended)

* November 2002 in relation to Brown, O'Reilly, Silvagni and Bradley....new penalties plus the suspended penalties from 2000

Does anyone remember the reasons behind the earlier penalties, or the years?
Author:  Ciccio [ Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
reading this post all of sudden brought back a memory of Gerard Healy on 3AW stating after the punishment was announced that it would take Carlton 10 years to recover.

I remember thinking at the time that 10 years sounds like a bit of exageration but history may prove he is right (unfortunately). I think at the time Healy was making an accessment of the current list and knew it was in a bad way - had he known how bad the club would be managed he may well have predicted 15 years.
Author:  The Duke [ Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
What pisses me off is that Carro Wilson said on 3AW last week end that 'many at AFL board level think the penalties were FAR to harsh and it was more about getting back at Elliott than anything' or words to that effect.

Well, derrrrrrrr Carro, I've been saying since 2002 that the only people the penalties hurt were the public and the future players and the future of the club.

Who paid the fines?? Elliott? They had absolutely no policy in place to ensure these sort of rorts didn't occur. If they had a 3 strikes policy for board members in relation to braeches, Elliot would've been gone and we'd still have a club.

The AFL have always been @#$%&! wits, and are doing their best to keep up the standards they've been setting for years.

And to think people on this site think our problems are coach based :roll: .

This shows we have come from a lower base than a brand spanking new club coming into the comp given player and salary concessions.

:evil: :evil: :evil:
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