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2007: Game Plan and required / likely structural amendments
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Author:  molsey [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:  2007: Game Plan and required / likely structural amendments
Bloody hell it's quiet in here. What...isn't it footy season or something?

I was thinking with anticipation of how Carlton / Pagan will seek to modify the game plan for 2007 given what happened in 2006. Assuming Pagan remains as per recent Board support (!), 2006 saw him jettison his old game plan and introduce more flooding and defensive possession / running.

I doubt Pagan will go back to his 'Plan A' but seek to modify what happened in 2006 for advantage. This will see a continuation of chipping at times and a continuation of the flood, at times.

To me, I think his game plan broke down (sometimes horribly) at or around half forward where opposition teams played a flood. We couldnt penetrate the flood given a) we were taking possession and kicking from midfield / wings, delivering the ball to half forward only (where only fev can really score) and b) we were getting swamped at half forward with the flood.

To remedy this I think we need:

1. More players who can break the lines with their running. We only have 3 such players on current set-up - Simpson, Walker and Bannister, and both Walker and Bannister played so deep at times in 2006 that we didnt get to see their running.
2. Walker played proper midfield and freed from defence. Russell becomes a very important player for us in this regard.
3. sub-structures of marking half-forwards / wingmen who are each dangerous in their own right. in this regard, Fish, Waite, Wiggins and maybe a Jackson type player are required to provide leading targets, but in ways where they can 'wax' but still gain metres going forward.
4. And we need Kennedy to mature very quickly. A big long-armed fella can provide that presence at half-forward and maybe break up that flood.

Agree / disagree / Pine for the Paddock?
Author:  Jarusa [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
The team needs a lot more skill and pace and maturity, until it gets enough of these things tinkering with game plans is a bit like ... dare I say it..... dancing with your sister.
Author:  molsey [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
Jarusa wrote:
The team needs a lot more skill and pace and maturity, until it gets enough of these things tinkering with game plans is a bit like ... dare I say it..... dancing with your sister.


Yeah...lets not worry about game plans until 2009 then...!
Author:  Laserkid [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
Its been so obvous for the past two years of what to do its just not funny.

1. Get the kids to have fun while playing, take risks, back yourselves, have confidence in the people around you.

you do this by:

2. pick the side for the next four weeks. Thats right you pick the best side and say, baring injury. that you will play them together for at least four weeks.

this builds confidence in the kids.

3. Teach Pagan the word "r o t a t i o n" so the same people are not killed
week in and week out

4. Teach Pagan that the pine is for r o t a t i o n and not for the guys he does not like

5. Work on the basics ie kicking, handballing, kicking for goal

6. Improve training. It should be teaching skills not reinforcing bad habits

7. Be positive. We never seem to have a positive gameplan, infact any gameplan except kick to Fev.

8. Work on set plays. Our set plays suck.

9. Own the corridore. When was the last time you saw a Carlton player running and bouncing down the middle?

10. Finally, the impossible, leaders show leadership. We have the worst leadership group in the league, so change them, create a leadership group of guys who bleed for the team.

Thats my rant
Author:  Jarusa [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
molsey wrote:
Jarusa wrote:
The team needs a lot more skill and pace and maturity, until it gets enough of these things tinkering with game plans is a bit like ... dare I say it..... dancing with your sister.


Yeah...lets not worry about game plans until 2009 then...!


*whoosh*
Author:  Molly [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
Can't comment on the gameplan Molsey, because I've never considered myself knowledgeable to know much about it.

Your complaint about TC being like a morgue today is spot on though. Can't this Board challenge hurry up and happen so that we have something to discuss :shock:
Author:  bluehammer [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
New gameplan should include Kent Kingsley.
Author:  Synbad [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
Structures are being thought out.....
Author:  Blue Vain [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
Football has developed to a stage where games are segmented with various gamestyles. Your opposition usually control how you use the ball as much as you do yourself.
If they can force a stoppage or hold up play, they get numbers behind the ball and force you to chip and retain possession. If they are unable to get back, the fast break is on and coast to coast scores usually occur.

As we've discussed before, football tactically mirrors soccer and basketball more than ever before.

Where we let ourselves down IMHO is the ability to make the correct decisions often enough. Pagan can instruct the players how to use the ball correctly for 80% of the time we have possession. It's the remaining 20% (entering forward 50 to a viable target) which dictates how much you score. That is the most important and difficult aspect and it's where we struggle the most.

We too often get the ball forward of the wing or half forward but struggle to make the right decisions when entering 50. The reasons are various IMO. Firstly, our players are not conditioned to making decisions. Secondly we dont have the structures required to make and protect the space. Thirdly, our forwards dont sacrifice for each other.
Fourthly, either our coaches struggle to comprehend these set ups or they choose not to develop them.

I recently attended a seminar where a Collingwood assistant coach was a guest speaker. He wrote a list of about 12 attributes coaches now look for in modern players. Top of the list was decision making.
The ability to make the right decisions is more crucial than ever.
I bemoaned our coaches removing the ability of our players to make their own decisions as far back as 2003.
That is now coming home to roost.

We can match several teams man on man and as Kennedy matures, we will play the fast break game as well as most. It requires little decision making and is mostly decided by skill and physical capabilities.

When the opposition get back behind the ball, we will continue to struggle.
Until Denis truly develops the decision making of the players, relinquishes some control without feeling threatened and empowers the players to make decisions, we will stay off the pace.
Decisions need to be made on the ground by individuals without fear of making mistakes. The ability to make decisions needs to be fostered on the track.
That is the modern game. The tactics have not change enormously. Its the ability to create structures which maximise your ability to score....by players with the ball and those without it.

We are miles off the pace in this regard.
What can Denis do? So far he has shown a total inability to recognise these deficiencies let alone remedy them.
I'm not great at putting these things in words but hopefully you get what I mean.


Sorry Molsey but you asked. :P
Author:  molsey [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
Blue Vain wrote:
Sorry Molsey but you asked. :P


The thread was initially called...'Dear BV....' :lol:
Author:  AGRO [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2007: Game Plan and required / likely structural amendme
molsey wrote:
4. And we need Kennedy to mature very quickly. A big long-armed fella can provide that presence at half-forward and maybe break up that flood.

Agree / disagree / Pine for the Paddock?



Kennedy will be the pack breaker target we have been yearning for since Kernahan retired in 97.

I aint really one for huge statements :P - but Kennedy IMHO is heading for Jonathon Brown territory. :wink:

- Fevola will relish the freedom in 2007 and beyond as long as Kennedy is given some game time at CHF by MC - for godsake he wont learn anything on the pine Denis.
Author:  bondiblue [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Molsey = break the lines (agree)
Jarusa= pace and maturity (body & mind?) agree
Laserkid= rotation & risks (agree)
BV= decision making & vialble target (agree)
Agro= Kennedy = Kernahan/Brown (agree and hope)

I agree with all the above. Breaking the lines breaks up the defensive wall, and this is something we should focus on, but we need to keep midfielders/ ball carriers fresh and going 100% flat out 100% of the time they are on the field, hence the importance of rotation.

I also think that one of our strengths in the past 2 seasons has been our clearances, and this should improve with a big preseason. Of course when we don't have the ball midfield accountability let us down badly. Clangers were another killer.

Like AGRO the first thing I though of when considering our forwardline is Kennedy as an alternative avenue to goal. But not exclusively. Rotating the targets is a good way to mix it up and avoid being predictable.

I think DP saw DeLuca as a difficult match up for the opposition with his heoight and reach advantage when roosting the ball to the FF line. Unfortuanetly, he got to the ball but couldn't hold on to it.

Now that Kennedy is 198cm I would like to see him moving/leading back to the FF line when Fevola is leading out past the 50 (usually double teamed), if we go to Fev, outside runners with good disposal (Stevens, Murphy, Simpson, Houlihan, Blackwell, Russell and Gibbs) should be flying past for the receive to lob/pass it to Kennedy, unless Fev is within range.

That means a good marking player like Lance, Fish or Waite to lead upfield from CHF/HF doing what Jonathon Brown was doing when fit...providing a marking target/link between C and CHF (then they have to be skillful enough) to hit leading targets or, giving it off to runners with good disposal.

A strong marking Kennedy will make a huge difference, as will Lance in the forwardline. Lets attack.

We need options in the HF and FF lines, and crumbers around these targets; Betts went missing a bit last year, maybe Gibbs could be the other target (much taller than Betts) and crumber.

Pagan's paddock should be a tactic, not the norm. When opposition are more accountable and play on their man, because of the danger they present (alternative avenue to goal), then perhaps we could apply Pagan's paddock with Fev.

Creative license to the midfielders, but as mentioned before, we need good decisions made and good skills in execution.
Author:  TheGame [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Go back to the 2003 Pagan's paddock based around Whitnall.
Author:  mjonc [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think Jacko is going to have a large influence on our midfield run next year.

PS: JR is behind Action Jackson and Kouta in the pecking order on the Mjonc list. Jacko is numero uno. GUN!!
Author:  Synbad [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
TheGame wrote:
Go back to the 2003 Pagan's paddock based around Whitnall.


Comic genius...
Author:  Conundrum [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
Blue Vain wrote:
Football has developed to a stage where games are segmented with various gamestyles. Your opposition usually control how you use the ball as much as you do yourself.
If they can force a stoppage or hold up play, they get numbers behind the ball and force you to chip and retain possession. If they are unable to get back, the fast break is on and coast to coast scores usually occur.

As we've discussed before, football tactically mirrors soccer and basketball more than ever before.

Where we let ourselves down IMHO is the ability to make the correct decisions often enough. Pagan can instruct the players how to use the ball correctly for 80% of the time we have possession. It's the remaining 20% (entering forward 50 to a viable target) which dictates how much you score. That is the most important and difficult aspect and it's where we struggle the most.

We too often get the ball forward of the wing or half forward but struggle to make the right decisions when entering 50. The reasons are various IMO. Firstly, our players are not conditioned to making decisions. Secondly we dont have the structures required to make and protect the space. Thirdly, our forwards dont sacrifice for each other.
Fourthly, either our coaches struggle to comprehend these set ups or they choose not to develop them.

I recently attended a seminar where a Collingwood assistant coach was a guest speaker. He wrote a list of about 12 attributes coaches now look for in modern players. Top of the list was decision making.
The ability to make the right decisions is more crucial than ever.
I bemoaned our coaches removing the ability of our players to make their own decisions as far back as 2003.
That is now coming home to roost.

We can match several teams man on man and as Kennedy matures, we will play the fast break game as well as most. It requires little decision making and is mostly decided by skill and physical capabilities.

When the opposition get back behind the ball, we will continue to struggle.
Until Denis truly develops the decision making of the players, relinquishes some control without feeling threatened and empowers the players to make decisions, we will stay off the pace.
Decisions need to be made on the ground by individuals without fear of making mistakes. The ability to make decisions needs to be fostered on the track.
That is the modern game. The tactics have not change enormously. Its the ability to create structures which maximise your ability to score....by players with the ball and those without it.

We are miles off the pace in this regard.
What can Denis do? So far he has shown a total inability to recognise these deficiencies let alone remedy them.
I'm not great at putting these things in words but hopefully you get what I mean.



Thanks BV for taking the time to share your thoughts. I remember reading in the paper an article on Neil Craig who also rated decision making as his number one criteria the club looked at when recruiting.

Now how much can a Coach influence decision making and how much is dependent on the player himself ie some players Carazzo, Prenda and Wiggins to name a few no matter how much game time and exposure at the highest level cannot make the right call or just as importantly take way too long in the decision making thereby eliminating viable offensive options as the opposition run back to flood their backline.

We have recruited badly and maybe the sad fact is no Coach can help develop the players in this department. At Carlton we have been guilty in recruiting the more athletic types with the exception of Murphy at the expense of natural footballers with sound decision making skills. Poor decision making and errors are our tw obiggest weaknesses and maybe the relative youthfulness ofour list has exacerbated the problem.
Author:  bondiblue [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
Conundrum wrote

Quote:
Thanks BV for taking the time to share your thoughts. I remember reading in the paper an article on Neil Craig who also rated decision making as his number one criteria the club looked at when recruiting.

Now how much can a Coach influence decision making and how much is dependent on the player himself ie some players Carazzo, Prenda and Wiggins to name a few no matter how much game time and exposure at the highest level cannot make the right call or just as importantly take way too long in the decision making thereby eliminating viable offensive options as the opposition run back to flood their backline.

We have recruited badly and maybe the sad fact is no Coach can help develop the players in this department. At Carlton we have been guilty in recruiting the more athletic types with the exception of Murphy at the expense of natural footballers with sound decision making skills. Poor decision making and errors are our tw obiggest weaknesses and maybe the relative youthfulness ofour list has exacerbated the problem.


True to a degree.

But there is a mechanism called drills to sharpen a player's decision making...think aircraft pilots and simulation exercises...I think that's where we've missed out and are missing out.

I think Kouta success as a superb athlete....once descibed as the modern footballer and future footballer... influenced by the media...influenced the perception of the club.

In a way it was true, as the game has become faster, and there is a need to combine athleticism... reach, hand span, vertical jump and so on...but you still need real footballers playing this game...and you drill the decisions into players if you intend success...have a look at Setanta for an example...or you look for and find natural footballers, lacking athleticism, and develop guys such as Diesel Williams....it's hit and miss to an extent with those types.

But what we should have learned in the past decade is that the pool of talent is (I mean real football a talent) is limited and he higher the draft pick, the better chance of finding that 'gem'....and even then you can stuff up (#4 Livingston, Vance...)...and that's why every year you need a few top draft picks; not only one....for upkeep alone...hedging your bets.
Author:  amazonstud [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
IMO one of the best ways to beat the flood is to have long kicking players across the midfield and we seem to be getting a few into the side these days. They can deliver the ball very deep into the forward zone and kick over the half back defensive wall. IIRC I think Fev was one of the only players we had last year who could kick goals from outside 50 metres. It just seems to make a huge difference and throws the oppositions defensive tactics out of kilter.
Author:  Laserkid [ Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Its interesting that there is a focus on decision making in this tread. Wiggins and Deluca paricularly come to mind ion this respect, Deluca looks like a bunny staring at headlights when he gets the ball.

Decision making can be inproved upon. I was reading about a computer program written in Israel specifically for basketball players to improve there decision making. As BV noted, we are miles off the pace to use proper training methods and having a scientific method to improve decision making. We do not have the money, the personnel and the desire to be innovative. Our business model is a failure but I see nothing on the horizon to cause this to change.
Author:  bluehotel [ Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Electro shock to the aggots for every wrong decision should do the trick pretty quickly.
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