TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Frenchs Views on Pagan

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,20746237-21543,00.html

His thoughts are quite damning of Pagan

Add Fev and Lance to those who wanted to jump ship.

Spot on Dukes.
Players can complain as much as they like about Pagan being a hard taskmaster but at the end of the day the coach is there to do a job and as supporters we expect the coach to be tough on them.
We want players that have steel about them and can cope with critism and hard work.
Isn't funny how champion players ie Carey, Archer, Stevens etc couldn't speak highly enough of Pagan, why is that, because these guys were prepared to do the hard yards and never took a backward step and played like their life dependant on it. It is the weak and mentally fragile players that do not like Pagan.
Denis is the man no doubt about it!!

Carey, Archer and Stevens had the run of the club and Denis let them do what they liked......as long as they kept winning....the person behind the success at North was Wayne Carey....Denis needed him to marshall and bully the troops and Carey needed Pagan to cover up all the trouble he got into.....it was a nice partnership....

re: Barnaby's comments......reading between the lines I dont think he was a fan of Denis and held back because he is a decent clubman and didnt want to slag off the club...I agree though it is damming and just another negative for a coach who is on his last legs....

I read it that French thinks Pagan is stuck in the past, and doesn't make being around the club enjoyable for the players. But French has too much class to do a Manton and bag the coach outright.

Not so much damning with faint praise as damning with faint criticism.

Author:	Rhys26 [ Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Frenchs Views on Pagan
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/stor ... 43,00.html His thoughts are quite damning of Pagan

Author:	Dukes [ Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:53 pm ]
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My thoughts on Barnaby's footballing ability are quite damning as well ...

Author:	jimmae [ Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Frenchs Views on Pagan
Rhys26 wrote: http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,20746237-21543,00.html His thoughts are quite damning of Pagan Dunno what you're reading but everytime he had a go he eased off long before anything became 'damning'. He realises that the whole club is stale, not that Pagan is some sort of megalomaniac trying to exact vengence on the football community (ala a good chunk of this forum).

Author:	woof [ Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:00 pm ]
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It is a pretty fair article. I think he got his point across without causing any sensations.

Author:	spider [ Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:07 pm ]
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Typical soft cock.

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Author:	malbi [ Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:07 pm ]
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This is just confirmation again that Pagan was the wrong person to get to Carlton. We have just been marking time these past four years. It is as simple as that. The only good thing out of it is that we are getting some pretty handy young kids due to the draft preferences.

Author:	Wet Willie [ Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:16 pm ]
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Er, what bit was "damning"...??? The fact he returned to SA by choice???

Author:	Dukes [ Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:18 pm ]
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Another player that has jumped ship, or tried to, when Carlton needed him - add him to the list of Campo, Beaumont, McKernan, Allan, Thornton, Russell, etc. This might be a little harsh but he must have realised our ruck options were limited. Us supporters don't want to hear how 'hard it's been' - we fully know!!!!! - but its about time we start hearing things like - 'we're going to work hard at turning this around'. The only guys who consistently say this in the media are Fev and Lance and for this reason I have immense respect for them.

Author:	Bookie [ Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:27 pm ]
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Add Fev and Lance to those who wanted to jump ship.

Author:	JS74 [ Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:39 pm ]
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Spot on Dukes. Players can complain as much as they like about Pagan being a hard taskmaster but at the end of the day the coach is there to do a job and as supporters we expect the coach to be tough on them. We want players that have steel about them and can cope with critism and hard work. Isn't funny how champion players ie Carey, Archer, Stevens etc couldn't speak highly enough of Pagan, why is that, because these guys were prepared to do the hard yards and never took a backward step and played like their life dependant on it. It is the weak and mentally fragile players that do not like Pagan. Denis is the man no doubt about it!!

Author:	Beantown [ Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:55 pm ]
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I would think that he gave a fair assessment based on his time at the club, thats all. Nothing wrong with that. He hardly shitcanned Pagan ala Glenn Manton.

Author:	Dukes [ Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:01 pm ]
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Bookie wrote: Add Fev and Lance to those who wanted to jump ship. Both were shopped around in the draft.

Author:	Elwood Blues1 [ Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:21 pm ]
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SPILIJ wrote: Spot on Dukes. Players can complain as much as they like about Pagan being a hard taskmaster but at the end of the day the coach is there to do a job and as supporters we expect the coach to be tough on them. We want players that have steel about them and can cope with critism and hard work. Isn't funny how champion players ie Carey, Archer, Stevens etc couldn't speak highly enough of Pagan, why is that, because these guys were prepared to do the hard yards and never took a backward step and played like their life dependant on it. It is the weak and mentally fragile players that do not like Pagan. Denis is the man no doubt about it!! Carey, Archer and Stevens had the run of the club and Denis let them do what they liked......as long as they kept winning....the person behind the success at North was Wayne Carey....Denis needed him to marshall and bully the troops and Carey needed Pagan to cover up all the trouble he got into.....it was a nice partnership.... re: Barnaby's comments......reading between the lines I dont think he was a fan of Denis and held back because he is a decent clubman and didnt want to slag off the club...I agree though it is damming and just another negative for a coach who is on his last legs....

Author:	Blue Vain [ Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:26 pm ]
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SPILIJ wrote: Spot on Dukes. Players can complain as much as they like about Pagan being a hard taskmaster but at the end of the day the coach is there to do a job and as supporters we expect the coach to be tough on them. We want players that have steel about them and can cope with critism and hard work. Isn't funny how champion players ie Carey, Archer, Stevens etc couldn't speak highly enough of Pagan, why is that, because these guys were prepared to do the hard yards and never took a backward step and played like their life dependant on it. It is the weak and mentally fragile players that do not like Pagan. Denis is the man no doubt about it!! Yeah and while we're living in the past, lets bring back the cane, drop kicks and HQ Holdens. Well done Barnaby. He knew he was past it and didnt have the motivation to continue and chose to leave instead of syphoning the club. A courageous and honourable decision. Too bad some others are'nt as honest with themselves.

Author:	CK95 [ Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:36 pm ]
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Manton carried on like a complete tool on The Footy show when he was dropped though...at least French's comments to the paper weren't a big sook session.

Author:	Sniff Wilson [ Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:43 pm ]
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Glenn could have carried himself a little better, agreed, and he would know that and he would be extremely dirty on himself for behaving the way he did....however, the way he was treated and told of his impending departure from Carlton was appalling. i just take offence at someone commenting on the class or character of someone who does so much for so many others.

Author:	JohnM [ Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:44 pm ]
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So Manton's a saint because he works with troubled youth? I'm assuming that's his job, and he draws a salary doing it. I apologise if I'm wrong, and he actually gives his time to whitelion and doesn't draw a cent from it, and derives his income from other means. But if that's not the case, I see no reason to suppose that Glenn Manton is twice the person I am. Not putting him down - but if whitelion is his job, then he's no different to plenty of other people.

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Author:	SA Blue [ Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:37 pm ]
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Elwood Blues wrote: Carey, Archer and Stevens had the run of the club and Denis let them do what they liked......as long as they kept winning....the person behind the success at North was Wayne Carey....Denis needed him to marshall and bully the troops and Carey needed Pagan to cover up all the trouble he got into.....it was a nice partnership.... re: Barnaby's comments......reading between the lines I dont think he was a fan of Denis and held back because he is a decent clubman and didnt want to slag off the club...I agree though it is damming and just another negative for a coach who is on his last legs.... What a bunch of revisionist drivel. You have absolutely no idea what you are on about in regards to your comments re North. You are just making things up to suit your argument. Do you have any, and I mean ANY, evidence to support ypur claims Carey did all the work, and all Pagan did was cover Carey's tracks?!?!? Utter crap.

Author:	JohnM [ Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:19 pm ]
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I read it that French thinks Pagan is stuck in the past, and doesn't make being around the club enjoyable for the players. But French has too much class to do a Manton and bag the coach outright. Not so much damning with faint praise as damning with faint criticism.

Author:	Sniff Wilson [ Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:27 pm ]
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JohnM wrote: I read it that French thinks Pagan is stuck in the past, and doesn't make being around the club enjoyable for the players. But French has too much class to do a Manton and bag the coach outright. Not so much damning with faint praise as damning with faint criticism. so glenn manton has no class??????? check out www.whitelion.asn.au also the way in which Glenn Manton was dealt with was a no class act. Glenn reacted as anyone would have in that situation. Get your facts straight before you bag someone. You wish you could be half the person Glenn Manton is.