TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Thorntons role in defence...

I think the Brett had a good game (maybe not as good as his 28 possessions suggest), but I think his role SERIOUSLY needs to be addressed. His work in the air was extremely valuable, but I really don’t like him coordinating our rebound out of defence. His decision making is poor, his disposal is very average, and our midfield is arguably our only strength... Why don’t we utilise it?

Why did i see (on several occasions) Thornton act as the receiving player, running past a player who had marked, only to miss the target with his kick or send it to a 50/50 contest. Surely his role should be restricted to the air and he should be looking to offload to guys like Houlahan, Scotland and Gibbs, who probably have the best disposal in our team, to set up the forward thrust.

I love the fact that he was a cool head in our defence, and that he zoned off his man to drift forward, even if it was only to create a nuisance, rather then a genuine option. What I don't like is the vision of him streaming down the wing and causing a turnover across our half forward line. He needs to know his limits, and I think controlling our rebound out of defence is one of them.

Jason Cloke all over again.

Apparently he was on Brown.

Hung Jamison out to dry too.

I'll be happy with Thornton's game when he shuts down his man for 4 quarters and helps his fellow defenders. If I wanted someone to play loose and mop up on half back I'd give Campo a call...

Well, maybe not Campo but you get my drift.

Jason Cloke all over again.

Apparently he was on Brown.

Hung Jamison out to dry too.

I'll be happy with Thornton's game when he shuts down his man for 4 quarters and helps his fellow defenders.

Surely you can't have it both ways. Either he locks down on his opponent or else he plays loose and helps the others out.

GWS wrote:

Jason Cloke all over again.

Apparently he was on Brown.

Hung Jamison out to dry too.

I'll be happy with Thornton's game when he shuts down his man for 4 quarters and helps his fellow defenders.

Surely you can't have it both ways. Either he locks down on his opponent or else he plays loose and helps the others out. Surely he can't be expected to shut out Brown and also do the job on Richo as 3rd man in.

I thought he had a terrific game. He did actually get back and help Jamison out on a few occasions. He also managed to limit Brown to very few possessions. As well as getting a stack of it himself, and using it well out of defence.

Obviously it was disappointing that Brown kicked 3 goals. But 2 of them were fairly freakish. Hard to think many would have prevented those.

Stefchook wrote:

Surely you can't have it both ways. Either he locks down on his opponent or else he plays loose and helps the others out.

Good backs do both.

Stefchook wrote:

Geelongs backs seem to double team everyone......and they look after their own player, midfield pressure helps as they tackle hard hard and chase down players...Ablett, Chapman etc also chase hard out of the forward line....teams rarely get easy forward thrusts vs the Cats....the ball gets bombed under pressure or forced wide and their backs have read the play and doubled up on the closest contesting forward. They then switch play to the weak side where they have players loose in space.....they get it done cos they work and run harder and know what to do.

Author:	Juddanaught09 [ Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:23 am ]
Post subject:	Thorntons role in defence...
I think the Brett had a good game (maybe not as good as his 28 possessions suggest), but I think his role SERIOUSLY needs to be addressed. His work in the air was extremely valuable, but I really don’t like him coordinating our rebound out of defence. His decision making is poor, his disposal is very average, and our midfield is arguably our only strength... Why don’t we utilise it? Why did i see (on several occasions) Thornton act as the receiving player, running past a player who had marked, only to miss the target with his kick or send it to a 50/50 contest. Surely his role should be restricted to the air and he should be looking to offload to guys like Houlahan, Scotland and Gibbs, who probably have the best disposal in our team, to set up the forward thrust. I love the fact that he was a cool head in our defence, and that he zoned off his man to drift forward, even if it was only to create a nuisance, rather then a genuine option. What I don't like is the vision of him streaming down the wing and causing a turnover across our half forward line. He needs to know his limits, and I think controlling our rebound out of defence is one of them.

Author:	HELLAS BLUE [ Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Thorntons role in defence...
Juddanaught09 wrote: I think the Brett had a good game (maybe not as good as his 28 possessions suggest), but I think his role SERIOUSLY needs to be addressed. His work in the air was extremely valuable, but I really don’t like him coordinating our rebound out of defence. His decision making is poor, his disposal is very average, and our midfield is arguably our only strength... Why don’t we utilise it? Why did i see (on several occasions) Thornton act as the receiving player, running past a player who had marked, only to miss the target with his kick or send it to a 50/50 contest. Surely his role should be restricted to the air and he should be looking to offload to guys like Houlahan, Scotland and Gibbs, who probably have the best disposal in our team, to set up the forward thrust. I love the fact that he was a cool head in our defence, and that he zoned off his man to drift forward, even if it was only to create a nuisance, rather then a genuine option. What I don't like is the vision of him streaming down the wing and causing a turnover across our half forward line. He needs to know his limits, and I think controlling our rebound out of defence is one of them. Couldn't disagree more with you.

Author:	Beano [ Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:08 am ]
Post subject:
I thought, and not being biased, that Carlos and Tbird work well together, T reads it well, carlos has the gallop and guts/niavity to run it out. Any thoughts?

Author:	chelodina [ Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Thorntons role in defence...
If Thornton is going to play loose,I want him helping out Jamison, teaming up on FF's and filling in holes. Thornton's disposal and decision making by foot is not good enough to rack up 28 possessions. Don't know if he was told to do that the other night, but if not, it was a very very selfish game by Thornton Juddanaught09 wrote: I think the Brett had a good game (maybe not as good as his 28 possessions suggest), but I think his role SERIOUSLY needs to be addressed. His work in the air was extremely valuable, but I really don’t like him coordinating our rebound out of defence. His decision making is poor, his disposal is very average, and our midfield is arguably our only strength... Why don’t we utilise it? Why did i see (on several occasions) Thornton act as the receiving player, running past a player who had marked, only to miss the target with his kick or send it to a 50/50 contest. Surely his role should be restricted to the air and he should be looking to offload to guys like Houlahan, Scotland and Gibbs, who probably have the best disposal in our team, to set up the forward thrust. I love the fact that he was a cool head in our defence, and that he zoned off his man to drift forward, even if it was only to create a nuisance, rather then a genuine option. What I don't like is the vision of him streaming down the wing and causing a turnover across our half forward line. He needs to know his limits, and I think controlling our rebound out of defence is one of them.

Author:	mjonc [ Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:17 am ]
Post subject:
Do people actually watch games before they make comments?

TalkingCarlton http://talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

Thorntons role in defence... http://talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20459	Page 1 of 2

Author:	club29 [ Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:54 am ]
Post subject:
I see the gameplan Ratts is after and i like it. Kind of like soccer. Hold posession give to the simplest option. move the ball quick. At the moment the players are struggling at times. Usually when the other team gets momentum. Our boys seem to freeze and the game plan goes out the window. One thing i have noticed with this style of play is that players dont know when to shepard or wait for the quick hands. I am sure we will get better at this once everyone gets use to way their teammates play. Thornton on a number of occasions waited to the last second to get his kick away. He would cop a bump right when he would get his kick away and the kick would get nowhere near its target. Perhaps he was expectiong a shepard.

Author:	Sasilce [ Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:04 am ]
Post subject:
I had t-bird in my best 3. I thought on the whole his disposal was terrific. I cannot recall the instance quoted above, however I accept that it occurred. I think we forget that even Greg Williams would miss a target once in a while. No one is perfect. Bret looked composed and competent all night in my opinion.

Author:	Melvey [ Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:26 am ]
Post subject:
He is to slow to get rid of it, and by the time he steps backwards, sideways the players running for him are covered and the tigers got numbers back.

Author:	BlueLife [ Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:55 am ]
Post subject:
Agree he was far too slow to get rid of it. Was tearing my hair out at the number of times he left it to the last second. You need quick decision making in order to capitalise on players being in a bit of space up the ground. Thornton is a main ingredient in the reason why we rarely seem to have space on our half forward line, yet other teams find it in abundance when playing against us.

Author:	Springsteen [ Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:38 am ]
Post subject:
thornton is a very good kick and has a nice technique. usually can hit a running target., his main problem is he often kicks back and sideways

Author:	GWS [ Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:39 am ]
Post subject:
Jason Cloke all over again. Apparently he was on Brown. Hung Jamison out to dry too. I'll be happy with Thornton's game when he shuts down his man for 4 quarters and helps his fellow defenders. If I wanted someone to play loose and mop up on half back I'd give Campo a call... Well, maybe not Campo but you get my drift.

Author:	Melvey [ Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:
I was he had the dash of a Tadhg Kennelly cause t-bird is a lovely kick and could be so damaging.

Author:	Elwood Blues1 [ Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:
GWS wrote: Jason Cloke all over again. Apparently he was on Brown. Hung Jamison out to dry too. I'll be happy with Thornton's game when he shuts down his man for 4 quarters and helps his fellow defenders. If I wanted someone to play loose and mop up on half back I'd give Campo a call... Well, maybe not Campo but you get my drift. Fair call......we needed Thornton to double team Richo or do a Milburn and fill up the leading space....some of Thorntons work was good but some of the cheap possies dont count IMO...

Author:	Stefchook [ Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:
GWS wrote: Jason Cloke all over again. Apparently he was on Brown. Hung Jamison out to dry too. I'll be happy with Thornton's game when he shuts down his man for 4 quarters and helps his fellow defenders. Surely you can't have it both ways. Either he locks down on his opponent or else he plays loose and helps the others out. Surely he can't be expected to shut out Brown and also do the job on Richo as 3rd man in. I thought he had a terrific game. He did actually get back and help Jamison out on a few occasions. He also managed to limit Brown to very few possessions. As well as getting a stack of it himself, and using it well out of defence. Obviously it was disappointing that Brown kicked 3 goals. But 2 of them were fairly freakish. Hard to think many would have prevented those.

Page 1 of 2	All times are UTC + 10 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/

Author:	budzy [ Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:
With Waitey Jamo PB and Setanta down back Tbird can float around a bit depending on the situation of the game. He could be a handy pinch hitter up forward at the right times.

Author:	GWS [ Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:
Stefchook wrote: Surely you can't have it both ways. Either he locks down on his opponent or else he plays loose and helps the others out. Good backs do both.

Author:	Elwood Blues1 [ Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:
Stefchook wrote: GWS wrote: Jason Cloke all over again. Apparently he was on Brown. Hung Jamison out to dry too. I'll be happy with Thornton's game when he shuts down his man for 4 quarters and helps his fellow defenders. Surely you can't have it both ways. Either he locks down on his opponent or else he plays loose and helps the others out. Surely he can't be expected to shut out Brown and also do the job on Richo as 3rd man in. I thought he had a terrific game. He did actually get back and help Jamison out on a few occasions. He also managed to limit Brown to very few possessions. As well as getting a stack of it himself, and using it well out of defence. Obviously it was disappointing that Brown kicked 3 goals. But 2 of them were fairly freakish. Hard to think many would have prevented those. Geelongs backs seem to double team everyone......and they look after their own player, midfield pressure helps as they tackle hard hard and chase down players...Ablett, Chapman etc also chase hard out of the forward line....teams rarely get easy forward thrusts vs the Cats....the ball gets bombed under pressure or forced wide and their backs have read the play and doubled up on the closest contesting forward. They then switch play to the weak side where they have players loose in space.....they get it done cos they work and run harder and know what to do.

Author:	Stefchook [ Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:33 pm ]
Post subject:
GWS wrote: Stefchook wrote: Surely you can't have it both ways. Either he locks down on his opponent or else he plays loose and helps the others out. Good backs do both. And I think you could mount a fair case that he did. I agree that Jamo could have done with some more help. But I'm not sure that's all Thornton's fault. Other defenders needed to chip in as well. Along with our ruckmen and midfielders. Only saw the game on tv. But it looked like there was considerably more space in Richmond's forward line than ours.

Author:	Stefchook [ Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:
Elwood Blues1 wrote: Stefchook wrote: Surely you can't have it both ways. Either he locks down on his opponent or else he plays loose and helps the others out. Surely he can't be expected to shut out Brown and also do the job on Richo as 3rd man in. I thought he had a terrific game. He did actually get back and help Jamison out on a few occasions. He also managed to limit Brown to very few possessions. As well as getting a stack of it himself, and using it well out of defence. Obviously it was disappointing that Brown kicked 3 goals. But 2 of them were fairly freakish. Hard to think many would have prevented those. Geelongs backs seem to double team everyone......and they look after their own player, midfield pressure helps as they tackle hard hard and chase down players...Ablett, Chapman etc also chase hard out of the forward line....teams rarely get easy forward thrusts vs the Cats....the ball gets bombed under pressure or forced wide and their backs have read the play and doubled up on the closest contesting forward. They then switch play to the weak side where they have players loose in space.....they get it done cos they work and run harder and know what to do. I agree with your argument. You really need your whole backline helping each other. Not to mention midfield and ruckmen. Pre-season, Ratten was suggesting that he wanted more 'all team' defence, which is I guess the point you're making. I guess we'll know we're making some headway, when we begin to be able to hold teams under 100 points. I haven't done the research. But it's often felt like opposition teams are really piling on the score in the second half. I assume this would be a function on our depth of talent, as well as fitness.

Author:	Siegfried [ Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:
I thought Thornton's game on Brown was excellent. Shut him right out, and Brown didn't get into the game until he was moved upfield. Thornton was then moved onto Richo, and struggled. One of the reasons why Richmond's forward line was more open is because they were more direct than we were, and so got it in their quicker than we did. It is all well and good to play possession football, in an attempt to not turn it over, but one of the results of this is that it gives the opposition time to flood back. The rare exceptions to this were in the second quarter, when we got a run on, and some direct ball off half back, and from the midfield. One more thing...and I fear that I am pissing against a wall here (or window)... I believe more and more that Waite needs to be played at CHF. I fear without him, we are going to be furstrated all year. However, IF he is going to play in the backline, he must take the number 1 forward, not the third tall as he did on Thursday (Cleve Hughes). Yes, we get some rebound, but it is too much of a sacrifice, when we are so light for key forwards. IMHO, playing Waite on the third tall is crazy. Either play him on Richo (or equivalent), or play him forward.