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Take note AFL
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Author:  dannyboy [ Mon May 16, 2005 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Take note AFL
You are supposed to be the keeper's of the flame. You are supposed nurture the spark that makes this such a great game. You must ensure its survival (and so beg/pander/kiss arse for money) but never at the expense of what makes this game tick.

Well the tick has tocked!

There are so many Calrton and Collingwood people walking around the streets of Melbourne begging their teams to lose it just isn't funny. They want their club to lose! Does that not send any alarm bells to the powers that be?

I have always been proud of this club and blokes like Synbad can sprout their elitist shit all they want, the truth is we won premierships because we ran a great club (and when we forgot this, as we regularly did, we didn't win flags). Now people want to re-write our history and say, hell we cheated for every flag we ever won. We didn't. We played the same game as every club and rose to the top. We are an old, old club that has managed not to succumb to the lethargy of age (though we went close under JE).

Now we are a club dragged down because the AFL want a system that demands failure from each club. And people are embracing it, are saying 'give me the picks!' in their sad little Tom Cruise voices.

Lets lose every game, hell lets do it for five years, just think of the team then!~!! Oh how great we'll be then.

Of course if we happen to win five more games or so this year how terrible, how [REDACTED], how stupid. Fancy running out there to win games.
Now I understand people wanting the best but is this sane? Do we really want to embrace a system that diminishes this game by so much that we want our team to lose rather than win?

I hope the Bluebaggers win seven or more games this year. hey I think that makes me the worst kind of supporter!

I hope we die as a club fighting rather than winning because the system tries to ensure everyone gets a turn winning. Where are the stories in that?

This game is floundering.
The flame sputters in the cold commercial wind.
Yes I am a fool who wants us to play to win and yes this may damn this club but as a song says, there are worse things than dying. Like selling your soul.

I hope the AFL change the stupid draft system fast. I hope they do it today or tomorrow. I hope they eradicate the cancer of wanting your team to fail. If not this game will soon be gone the way of the Dodo.

Soccer anyone?
Author:  camel [ Mon May 16, 2005 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Take note AFL
I agree danny, but can't they wait until next year to revise the draft ... just in case. :shock:
Author:  Deano Supremo [ Mon May 16, 2005 8:56 am ]
Post subject: 
Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

I'm with ya Danny, maintain the rage. Your anger is a gift.
Author:  Jarusa [ Mon May 16, 2005 8:59 am ]
Post subject: 
Hopefully the priority pick rule will go the way of 10-year rule. It gives too much incentive for tanking which makes the competition a joke.

As a I said in another thread, I would much rather win 1 premiership in the next hundred years by fighting/beating this crazy system than win 6 premierships (100/16) in the next hundred years by embracing the lose to win mentality.
Author:  stretford blue [ Mon May 16, 2005 9:00 am ]
Post subject: 
When the call comes to "go over the top" Danny is the man to have next to you and Rambo Stallone is the one to have in front of you.
Author:  camel [ Mon May 16, 2005 9:12 am ]
Post subject: 
:lol:
Author:  camel [ Mon May 16, 2005 9:15 am ]
Post subject: 
Jarusa wrote:
Hopefully the priority pick rule will go the way of 10-year rule. It gives too much incentive for tanking which makes the competition a joke.


Right you are Jarusa, right you are.

While I can see the reasons for people like Synbad and Clem to promote the lose to win mentality, I can't say that I like it, agree with it, or wish to see it embraced by the Carlton Football Club.
Author:  thegezman [ Mon May 16, 2005 9:20 am ]
Post subject: 
the problem could be easily solved IMHO.

the AFL still get to even out the comp, but just not by as much.

look if we were down by five goals at 3 qtr in round 22 and already sat on 22 points, i think i'd rather we lost knowing it could land us a cooney, judd, reidwoldt etc for nix the next year but i want us to win as many games possible this year, and if after all that we just aren't good enough and win less than 5.5 games then, so be it. win more than that the fantastic

if the AFL just mad the proity picks at the start of round 3 then it would be such a big issue.

the 16th team with a PP would receive picks 1, 16 32(PP) and 33 assuming they were the only team with a PP.

now that extra pick gives them a good chance of picking up another decent kid, but probably isn't enough to start tanking games half way though a season. but i guess some clubs may still tank in a round 22 situation like i described above.

just finishing low and get a top 6 pick is enough of an advantge to climb up the top quickly.

but i agree danny the current situation is crazy
Author:  Blue Vain [ Mon May 16, 2005 9:36 am ]
Post subject: 
If the priority pick was abolished, would the situation be different?
Supporters will still want low picks.

The AFL competition is probably as healthy as it has been.
16 clubs, healthy attendances, plenty of money.
Premierships to Brisbane, WC, Port and Adelaide, looming success for St KIlda, current resurgence of Richmond.
The situation is ideal for a national competition.

Carlton and Collingwood suck?
Absolutely but stiff shit.
Unfortunately the world doesnt revolve around us anymore.
Our list is shit because we mismanaged it.
Same goes for Collingwood.
The rules are in place to promote a successful competition.
Not to pander to clubs who refuse to move with the times.

Perhaps we should accept where the blame really lies, roll up our sleeves and do something about it.
The system is in place for the benefit of the game, not just us.
We should accept it and work our hardest to make maximum benefit out of it.
It doesnt matter what supporters want, clubs will finish where talent, form and mindset dictate.
AFL players want to win.
No matter what supporters expect, natural instinct and competitive spirit wins out.

Pointing fingers achieves nothing.
Lets improve our lot with hard work.
Author:  ryan2000 [ Mon May 16, 2005 9:50 am ]
Post subject: 
I'm all for the priority pick, but not every year! That way bastard teams such as Melbourne can score big time just for a bit of form loss and other teams can benifit from having a bad year injury wise by picking up a future champion.

A priority pick should be given in a situation where a certain team has been in the bottom 8 for 3 or so years.
Author:  ryan2000 [ Mon May 16, 2005 9:53 am ]
Post subject: 
My only concern, and perhaps somebody could clear this up for me, is that Carlton do decide to languish down the bottom to take advantage of the priority pick only to find out that the AFL are going to abolish it come round 22.

Could that happen???? I certainly wouyldn't put it past the pricks that's for sure!
Author:  TheGame [ Mon May 16, 2005 9:53 am ]
Post subject: 
Good call Danny. What sort of sport is this when supporters want to lose?
Author:  BlueRo [ Mon May 16, 2005 10:07 am ]
Post subject: 
You also risk, in 10 years say, no kids barracking for the Blues. You need some success for future supporters to latch onto, so, we need to play finals in the next few years or risk a loss of a generation of supporters.
Author:  marciblue [ Mon May 16, 2005 10:12 am ]
Post subject: 
Dannyboy, I agree, but hopefully the AFL Commission's meeting today don't decide to alter or abolish the PP for this year onwards, because we are going to need it. Seriously!!! We don't need to tank games because we are sh.!te!!! That's the reality.

We don't have much improvement left in this side and when you compare us to the rest we don't stack up well. That's another discussion though.

I think the entire system leaves a lot to be desired. The draft and salary cap as a combination are simply too restrictive and oppressive and an impost to clubs who have had their ability and scope curbed ala Blues. However, changes to this are unlikely.

The PP especially and even the draft criteria does tempt clubs to lose or not care so much about losing games. When all recruited players are drip fed through the draft in single selections then it is more enticing to be as high in the draft as possible, especially if your player list is poor and you desperately need talent. The PP should be altered. At least the qualifying criteria.

I would like for either the draft or cap to be abolished or altered. I think clubs should be allowed to exercise greater autonomy in locating and recruiting a selection of players. Or open up the cap to allow for clubs to improve their playing list by buying players on the open market. It is just ridiculous to expect clubs to wallow for 2-3 years and improve their situation through single selections in the draft and trying to trade. The improvements are insufficient and paltry.

When clubs were able to fend for themselves, Carlton were probably the best in the land in attracting players and recruiting kids to build premiership teams. When clubs were left to operate under essentially free market principles, then clubs like Carlton were able to exploit the skills and resources it had to be successful.

The system now is just so homogenised and so cyclical, it is ridiculously monotonous. We would be well on our way up if we hadn't been penalised and would be on the cyclical rise ala aints are at present. And what appears the tigers and dawks are about to embark on.
Author:  SurreyBlue [ Mon May 16, 2005 10:25 am ]
Post subject: 
Well said Danny & others.
Author:  dannyboy [ Mon May 16, 2005 10:44 am ]
Post subject: 
BV this is where youy andf i are fundamentally different. Its not 'Carlton' thaty concerns me, i think we have the right people in place and will turn this thing around.

What does concern me is the game. You see the fact is the game is not healthy, it is dangerously unwell. It is not crowds, money nor TV rights that determine a game's health, it is the passion of the pople who watch the game.

I belive it is this very passion that the AFL wish to water down. To manage so that it does not interfere with their plans.

I spend an awful lot of time with kids, at the school, at the football club my kid plays for, and I also spend every sunday with my daughter at her soccer club (where about 100 or so kids turn up every sunday) and i think the gamne is in serious trouble.

Losing today is nothing for kids, a kid the age of 10 will say, oh well we just need to finish down the bottom', or 'yeah we're crap this year but we'll get the picks!' These are kids, kids who can already see that the system is not about striving to win, not for all teams. Not for their team in given years.

So what? you might ask.

My fear is that this diminsishes the emotiona;l investment each kid makes in football. they are being told not to invest. To just treat it as a bit of entertainment, you have crappy episodes and you have great ones. Enjoy the great ones and ignore the crappy ones.

Sorry BV but that will never be footbnall to me, ever!

Will the game end? No. Not even I think that.

Will it become just a TV sport?

Yes. A soulless excuse for filling in some hours on the Tellie and not much else. If this happens then, for me, football is dead.

It is not about being elitist, it is about bnot trusting those in control because I believe they have madew a conscious decision to change the way we barrack for this game, the way we 'support'.

Rome burned as Nero fiddled.

I fear our great game might be burning also.
Author:  The Vet [ Mon May 16, 2005 10:59 am ]
Post subject: 
Deano Supremo wrote:
Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.


Yeah baby! I'm with you on this one. We haven't played by the AFL's rules for years - and i'm not starting now.
Author:  Wojee [ Mon May 16, 2005 11:01 am ]
Post subject: 
The AFL isn't a competition, it's a pseudo-competition.

The AFL says, "Hey, you're in a market we'd like to expand into, here, have a bunch of concessions. A flag or three will boost the number of suckers... I'm sorry, AFL supporters."

The AFL says, "Hey, you guys have been crap like forever, here's a system designed to give you one or two token flags."

The AFL says, "You've broken our rules and we already don't like you much so here's a fine that'll almost kill you off, and while we're at it we'll take away your chance at rebuilding for the next few years."

The AFL says, "You've broken our rules repeatedly, but Ron thinks you guys are ace, so here's a token slap on the wrist. Now run along you naughty boys you."
Author:  Sydney Blue [ Mon May 16, 2005 11:11 am ]
Post subject: 
We all hate the system -everyone knows the drafts not legal . So why doesn't someone take them on. It only took one player in the ARL to object and it was tossed out. Keep the cap get rid of the draft.
Author:  Rod Waddell [ Mon May 16, 2005 11:14 am ]
Post subject: 
Crowds up - bull f&^%$* shit. How can you possibly compare 6 games played at the same time in the same state against 8 games played at different times and in different states spread over 3 days.

I bet that victorian crowds are way down on average compared to 20 or even 10 years ago.
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