TalkingCarlton
http://talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

The plan for the rest of the year
http://talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2411		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  frank dardew [ Mon May 23, 2005 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  The plan for the rest of the year
Get as many games into Betts de luca waite simpson carrazzo thorton wiggins as possible
Tell Davies Livingston bentick and Sporn that they have the rest of the season to establish themselves as senior players.
Experiment with midfield rotation davies carrazzo simpson bentick houlihan sporn wiggins all tried in rotation and play campo kouta stevens on the half forward line for parts of each match so we ensure that the rotation happens.
Give de luca more time in the ruck
Give russell blackwell hartlett setanta games towards the end of the year or sooner if they warrant it.
See if chambers and longmuir are any good
Seek to restore the confidence of teague and scotland
We are too one-dimensional need to add flexibility to team and need to restore confidence
Not suggesting for one minute that this is tanking or advocating that but the last 3 games shows the present personnel is not doing the job so now its time to find out who can or who may be a player and who wants to be a player next year at Carlton
See where the cards fall with such a strategy if we win fantastic and unearth some new talent or generate a new commitment by players even better but if we lose then swallow the bitter pill and seek to do better next year.
Author:  Tractor Boy [ Mon May 23, 2005 2:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
I agree... Its time to roll the dice... Pagan keeps telling us that we need support for Kouta , Campo and Stevens, well try out the support that is available. Don't die wondering ?

Adding to this i would like to see Campo move into the back half, and Carrazzo given the opportunity to move into the midfield.
You might think i'm crazy but you tell me why this couldn't work... Campo in the eyes of the coach and MC does what is asked of him week in week out, contray to what some grandstand experts on this site believe. I'm sure that as he's coming to the twilight of his career it might be the right time to turn a huntered into a hunter...

Anyway lets mix it up, and in the end if we don't win many games, we'll have a better understanding of where we are placed and what we really do need. Who knows we too like Richmond could be a dratft away from finals football...

:D :D
Author:  Rod Waddell [ Mon May 23, 2005 2:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
Frank always admired your positivity but perhaps the last few weeks has taken its toll……………just as is has with Pagan who now appears to be referring back to the draft penalties more so than ever. He has been most resilient with his "do not look into the rear view mirror" approach and just maybe his confidence is starting to wane as well.
Author:  mjonc [ Mon May 23, 2005 2:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Tractor Boy wrote:
I agree... Its time to roll the dice... Pagan keeps telling us that we need support for Kouta , Campo and Stevens, well try out the support that is available. Don't die wondering ?

Adding to this i would like to see Campo move into the back half, and Carrazzo given the opportunity to move into the midfield.
You might think i'm crazy but you tell me why this couldn't work... Campo in the eyes of the coach and MC does what is asked of him week in week out, contray to what some grandstand experts on this site believe. I'm sure that as he's coming to the twilight of his career it might be the right time to turn a huntered into a hunter...

Anyway lets mix it up, and in the end if we don't win many games, we'll have a better understanding of where we are placed and what we really do need. Who knows we too like Richmond could be a dratft away from finals football...

:D :D


I actually love that idea TB. Campo gets most of his kicks in defence anyway, so just let him play there.
Author:  BlueMark [ Mon May 23, 2005 3:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Frank, succint and to the point as ever.

Agree 100% lets see who wants to be at the club next year. Let 'em off the leash and see what happens, if a player screws up on the field, send em straight back into the fray and see if they can get it right next time.
Author:  Zippy [ Mon May 23, 2005 4:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
I like Campo in the backline. Played a game there this year, can't remeber which one, might've been Wizard Cup and did a great job. This is the side I would like to see for the rest of the year.

B: Carrazzo - Livingston - Sporn
HB: Camporeale - Thornton - Teague
C: Simpson - Stevens - Houlihan
HF: S.OhAilpin - Waite - Fisher
F: Betts - Fevola - Lappin

R: French - Walker - Koutoufides

I/C: Russell - Whitnall - Chambers - De Luca

Couldn't fit these players in: Wiggins, Bentick, Davies, Scotland.
Author:  molsey [ Mon May 23, 2005 4:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
I completely disagree with Campo in the backline. I think he should be played HFF where his stats are subject to the hard work of those downfield. He will be judged on his ability to demand the ball and kick goals, something he should be able to do very well.
Author:  ryan2000 [ Mon May 23, 2005 5:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Try and re-capture some of our pre-season form and see how far we can go!

We got Adelaide next week, sure, it's gonna be tough but we won their last year!

Sydney the following week which i see as a very winnable game!

Brisbane are not the unbeatable side they once were and reports are coming in the Brown will be out for 3 - 4 weeks! Playing down here rather than at the Gabba. Very Winnable!

Bulldogs up at NT is gonna be tough, and although the Bulldogs are a different side, i can see this as a possible win!

West Coast................well, that's gonna be tough! But if we get on a winning streak, the least it could do is attract our large supporter base over there to get behind the team!

St.Kilda.............Well, again that's very hard expecially coming of a WA trip and a NT in a row!

Fremantle at the MCG......................FFS, Freo are shit at the best of times. If Richmond can trash them at the G and Hawthorn embarassing them at Subi, Jesus surley we can win over here!

Hawthorn..................we've done it once, we can do it again!

Richmond..................Make up for our last effort!

Port...........................are shit this year! At the MCG, we can totaly win this one!

Collingwood................Will have buckley back, but are still a shit team!

Essendon*....................Crap! Totally winnable game!

Kangaroos...................Always fall away from the pack towards the end of the year! Very winnable game!

So out of the remainding games..............i can see 8 games that we have a very decent chance at winning. That would leave us win 10.5 wins for the year!

Sydney.Brisbane.Freo.Hawthorn.Port.Collingwood.Essendon*.Kangaroos!

And don't give me that crap that our list is the worst because it is nothing more than an escape from the reality that we should be a much better team than what we are now!

Hawthorns list hasn't changed much, with the exception of Franklin & Roughead who had minimal impact on the weekend!
Kangaroos list is quite dismal too...but look where they are.
Essendons list isn't even a shadow of their 2000 team!

What i'm saying is that while we need to IMPROVE our list, i do not believe it to be the worst in the leauge!
We're not the only team with a weak list........................but we are the only team bitching about it!

I tell you one thing, if Dennis Pagan thinks draft picks over the wooden spoon then quite frankly.....................he ain't the coach for us!
I do not want Kouta to captain his team to a Wooden Spoon.

We haven't even approached the half way mark of the season and we've written ourselfs off! Christ.......................that's a poor effort! That to me is more embarrising than loosing the final game at Princess Park by 100+ points.

I can very much see it possible to finish with 10 wins! and if we don't......well at least we tried!
Author:  gerry atric [ Mon May 23, 2005 5:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
just as is has with Pagan who now appears to be referring back to the draft penalties more so than ever. He has been most resilient with his "do not look into the rear view mirror" approach and just maybe his confidence is starting to wane as well.


Good call Rod. DP seems rattled by our abysmal form and unsure how to turn it around. Let's see who in the twos can play, and let's get creative in the coaching box, take lots of risks, throw players around, encourage them to take chances. I think the coaching staff need to try and lighten up, try and build up players confidence. It's hard not to focus on our innumerable errors, but i remember healy or another Melbourne player saying how demoralising it was with Barrassi in the early 80s, going over mistakes that had been made.

No-one is enjoying it much at the moment. Players need to just do something good in the game, something to feel positive about. It's going to be a long way back. We don't need to tank we are a genuine no16
Author:  Kaptain Kouta [ Mon May 23, 2005 5:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm with Ryan. I reckon those matches he's listed are very winnable. And a couple of wins, and the boys will be pumped again, and away we go!
Author:  Sydney Blue [ Mon May 23, 2005 5:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
I am not as confident as Ryan but you can only wish. this losing every week is dam right depressing Plus it is gonna cost me a 100 if we finish below the bombers
Speaking of plans going forward did you see Pagans whiteboard in the prematch the players looked like they were attending a Lecture not a pre match rev up
Author:  Tractor Boy [ Mon May 23, 2005 5:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
ryan2000 wrote:
Try and re-capture some of our pre-season form and see how far we can go!

I tell you one thing, if Dennis Pagan thinks draft picks over the wooden spoon then quite frankly.....................he ain't the coach for us!
I do not want Kouta to captain his team to a Wooden Spoon.

I can very much see it possible to finish with 10 wins! and if we don't......well at least we tried!



Look these are some great points that you make. What i think you might be missing however, is that other sides allowed us to play to our strengths early ( Wiz Cup ), now they have players filling holes, double teaming , switching plays,etc etc, all of which is not allowing us to play to our strengths.

No one wants to win the wooden spoon, no one plays to lose and you are 100% correct about Denis Pagan , he aint right for us if he's playing for draft picks. No successful coach likes to instill a losing mentality into its team.

Trying and committing is all that i ask for also, but at this stage and the way things are going, maybe we need to consider making our players more than one dimensional. Campo to me is the perfect player to use as an example. Just remember back to when we were all questioning Lappin playing back. This move IMO made Lappin a more complete footballer, and i think the time could be right in experimenting with the likes of Campo, Carrazzo, Walker, Simpson, Davies, and even Carlos.

Winning is fantastic but when we are losing and not learning anything what are the positives ? We need to be learning from our losses and this is what concerns me..That we might not be ...

:)
Author:  ryan2000 [ Mon May 23, 2005 5:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
Kaptain Kouta wrote:
I'm with Ryan. I reckon those matches he's listed are very winnable. And a couple of wins, and the boys will be pumped again, and away we go!


flower OATH!

C'mon Boys, your better than this and you all flower know it! INCLUDING YOU DENNIS!
Author:  Blue 2 the BONE [ Mon May 23, 2005 6:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Kaptain Kouta wrote:
I'm with Ryan. I reckon those matches he's listed are very winnable. And a couple of wins, and the boys will be pumped again, and away we go!


Dont want to be negative but away we go to where exactly? To finish 10th? I´m all for hope and enthusiasm but it has to be grounded in some basic building blocks: a group of skillful players, a few strong leaders and some 2nd tier players with the ´cojones´to stand up and take the next step ... we have none of that. Hawthorn has, Richmond has.
Author:  ryan2000 [ Mon May 23, 2005 9:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Blue 2 the BONE wrote:
Kaptain Kouta wrote:
I'm with Ryan. I reckon those matches he's listed are very winnable. And a couple of wins, and the boys will be pumped again, and away we go!


Dont want to be negative but away we go to where exactly? To finish 10th? I´m all for hope and enthusiasm but it has to be grounded in some basic building blocks: a group of skillful players, a few strong leaders and some 2nd tier players with the ´cojones´to stand up and take the next step ... we have none of that. Hawthorn has, Richmond has.


EXACTLY!

If you would prefer to finish last then go support Richmond, StKilda,Hawthorn ect!

But in the end, it's not where we finish............it's the fact that we go out there and play with some balls rather than let teams cross us of their list before the game starts because we're a pack of pussy's and we're seen as a walk over!

I WANNA FINISH 10TH!
Author:  mjonc [ Mon May 23, 2005 9:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ryan thats the problem i see compared to Hawthorn, Richmond and St Kilda is we don't have the mongrel players that have the capacity to play with balls.

We no longer have any players like Fraser Brown, Dean Rice, Matty Hogg, Darren Hulme who can lead the charge physically under packs and make a contest.

Who in our team could take on Mick Martyn in a fifty fifty contest without any thought of his own career?

Who in our team could take on a chargeing Dean Wallis and take him down in a tackle front on?

Waite, Teague and French are the only players i can think off who put there balls on the line in a contest and as we all know these guys are not midfielders. Kouta shouldn't have to be a battering ram anymore. Carrazzo could be the player if he was allowed into the midfield and Bentick if given game time.

Delisting Darren Hulme was our biggest mistake, he was a barometer of our hardness at the bottom of packs, and really pissed off the best of the them the way Hulme can. As well as Martyns tackle, remember his effort on the wing against two North players that sparked a huge turnaround?
Author:  Synbad [ Mon May 23, 2005 10:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
BlueMark wrote:
Frank, succint and to the point as ever.

Agree 100% lets see who wants to be at the club next year. Let 'em off the leash and see what happens, if a player screws up on the field, send em straight back into the fray and see if they can get it right next time.


:lol:

Nice one BM.... tanking eh???

Were not going to win many games with the kids are we????
Too light and inexperienced.

And "Lets see who wants to be at the club next year"????
Were not talking "swapcards" are we by any chance???

Ohhhhhhhhhh yessssssssssss very nice......

2 and 3 years late respectively... but better late than never... i suppose.

:lol:
Author:  scottopee [ Tue May 24, 2005 1:01 am ]
Post subject: 
Agree Frank play the kids and give them onfield roles not the bench!
First up release Walker from his negative roles and let him go and find the ball I still can't understand why Pagan moved him of James Kelly after 5 disposals in the 1st quarter against the Cats then is thrown to the wolves against Ablett.
Author:  BlueMark [ Tue May 24, 2005 12:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
Synbad wrote:
BlueMark wrote:
Frank, succint and to the point as ever.

Agree 100% lets see who wants to be at the club next year. Let 'em off the leash and see what happens, if a player screws up on the field, send em straight back into the fray and see if they can get it right next time.


:lol:

Nice one BM.... tanking eh???

Were not going to win many games with the kids are we????
Too light and inexperienced.

And "Lets see who wants to be at the club next year"????
Were not talking "swapcards" are we by any chance???

Ohhhhhhhhhh yessssssssssss very nice......

2 and 3 years late respectively... but better late than never... i suppose.

:lol:


Always been an advocate of playing the kids, but never let facts get in the way of a cheap shot.
Author:  darknavy [ Tue May 24, 2005 2:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
Zippy wrote:
I like Campo in the backline. Played a game there this year, can't remeber which one, might've been Wizard Cup and did a great job. This is the side I would like to see for the rest of the year.

B: Carrazzo - Livingston - Sporn
HB: Camporeale - Thornton - Teague
C: Simpson - Stevens - Houlihan
HF: S.OhAilpin - Waite - Fisher
F: Betts - Fevola - Lappin

R: French - Walker - Koutoufides

I/C: Russell - Whitnall - Chambers - De Luca

Couldn't fit these players in: Wiggins, Bentick, Davies, Scotland.


That is a frightening team - That team will get smashed by 20 goals each week.

Carazzo, De Luca, Livingston, OHailpin, Fisher, Waite, Betts, Walker, Russell would be luck to have 100 games between them
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC + 10 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/