Yep, there's a few that can go either way really.
But it wouldn't be a harsh look at the clean-out if I wasn't tarring them all with the same de-list brush would it?
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| A harsh look at the clean-out ahead http://talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2629 |
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| Author: | Cyclonus [ Tue May 31, 2005 11:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | A harsh look at the clean-out ahead |
I'm a traitor of the highest order. I am genuinely terrified of missing out on the PP. We really need it that badly. I have the feeling there's another massive cleanout coming. Went through our list and put aside the players that I didn't think were up to it. There wasn't enough left to fill a team. We need to clear deadwood, and replace it with young talent and get a draft-assisted rebuild underway ASAP. Our draft-penalty rebuild, as valiant as it was, has failed, and our list is now loaded with honest triers, who in all honesty, are going to see us languishing for some time if they are blindly persisted with. Not up to AFL footy week-in, week-out: Sporn (Had faith in this guy from Day 1, but I've finally given up. Very injury prone, poor build, and just not up to it.) Scotland (Exposed badly this year. No interest in defensive footy.) Bannister (A stop-gap at best.) Bowyer (Slow, good inside, but poor skills by foot.) Norman (Been offered enough chances. Refuses to take them.) Clarke (Fast, hard, horrible disposal.) McGrath (Inconsistent and seems to have great trouble finding the ball.) Morell (Not big or heavy enough enough for KP, not small or fast enough for a running player. Not a true forward, not a true backman, not anything really.) Prendergast (I love him, I really do, but he's just not up to AFL standard.) Highly Questionable: Longmuir (Dominates VFL, struggles at AFL. Sounds familiar) Simpson (I know it's against the law to question him, and I've been a supporter of his, but he really is tiny and struggles to find the ball at AFL level.) Bentick (Slower than Simmo, worse skills too. Doesn't seem to be a very aware player.) Chambers (Going to be interesting to see if he makes it back from the ressies.) DeLuca (Seen loads of game time. Showing nothing.) Bryan (Hasn't played yet, and doesn't look likely to.) Wiggins (Restored some faith recently. Still a scary fumbly player to watch.) Trade Whitnall (The days of the lumbering CHF are over. We need a tall, fast, athletic CHF. Like Jarrod Waite. Anyone else on the above list if anyone will have them. Synbad is great to argue with, but he's on the money on this one. While avoiding the PP might be good in the ultra-short-term, it would be devastating for our list. People say qualifying for the PP will hurt our club, but maintaining a substandard list by missing out on these low picks will hurt it far, far more. No, I don't think we should play to lose, but I think we should play as many kids as possible to prepare them for the future. |
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| Author: | George Harris [ Tue May 31, 2005 11:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Agree, but think McGrath and Wiggins should be persisted with, while Longmuir, Bentick and Chambers are yet to have a real chance to prove themselves. |
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| Author: | Cyclonus [ Tue May 31, 2005 11:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | ... |
Yep, there's a few that can go either way really. But it wouldn't be a harsh look at the clean-out if I wasn't tarring them all with the same de-list brush would it?
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| Author: | Zippy [ Tue May 31, 2005 11:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I agree with everything you said but I still have time for Simpson, Bentick and Sporn. I would like to see us win a PP but I can't see us only winning 2 games for the rest of the season. |
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| Author: | grrofunger [ Tue May 31, 2005 11:29 pm ] |
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we can win 3 zippy - that will take us to the limit of 5.5 beat Sydney , Collingwood and Essendon* The rest we lose |
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| Author: | The Shag [ Tue May 31, 2005 11:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
yep, big cleanout this year... i really dont understand some peoples logic though, we are not good enough to make finals this year....period! the remaining time should be used to bring up players with some valuable experience....eg give norman a run on some real forwards...if he gets a bag kicked on him so be it....it all comes with the sport... WE WILL NOT MAKE FINALS, WE ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!! finishing bottom helps us out more then finishing 12 or 13.... i keep on saying it, but its sooooo true.... what good is a 12th placing??? 12th= not good enough for finals....not bad enough for good draft picks... Denis knows what needs to be done...dont expect much this season...!!! We will finish bottom because its in the best interests of our future...! |
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| Author: | BlueMark [ Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I feel for the kid we select next year as a PP, ( otherwise known as The Saviour) the pressure for him to stand up and win games off his own boot is gonna be huge. |
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| Author: | Wild Blue Yonder [ Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Andrew Walker will be pleased. |
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| Author: | mjonc [ Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A harsh look at the clean-out ahead |
Cyclonus wrote: Bentick (Slower than Simmo, worse skills too. Doesn't seem to be a very aware player.)
Cyclonus you must be joking on Bentick. Averaging 10 posessions in around 60mins a game, maybe 1 clanger at worst per game, hits targets by foot, tackles hard and wins clearances. If you doubt my summary of Bentick, I recommend you watch him closely in the games he has played. PS: Who isn't slower than Simmo? As for the rest of them I couldn't agree more, although Simmo needs a full season of playing regular footy 90mins+ like Sporn, Wiggins, Predergast have all received in the past before you can classify him as questionable. |
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| Author: | DocSherrin III [ Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:38 am ] |
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Agree wholeheartledly with Mark on that statement...however perhaps like Russell thay have a 'development' year with the Ants to avoid the public scrutiny. Remember that Cooney had his fair run at Werribee in year 1...and now in year 3 is really looking the goods. Also - I'd really like for someone (i'm too busy) to approach this if they'rein the shoes of Michael Malouf. I mean we're hardly going to get rid of someone like Sporn who still has another year of his contract left. He is an example of someone who unless you thought you could get a guy Pagan was keen on - you'd keep as he is a useful utility. Others - who either don't share the Pagan philosophy (ala Carlton life member Simon Beaumont) are a different kettle of fish - however I don't think we have many if any of these left. An interesting aside is trade week. A while away I know - but aside from the obvious shopping of Red - we could lose a quality player like Brad Fisher (example only) who must raise the eyebrow of other clubs and could be used to get someone like, and I'm only throwing names up here, Bartel or Koszitske...who are both out of contract. |
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| Author: | TruBlueBrad [ Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:01 am ] |
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It would be interesting to keep a count on how many different threads we have on this topic over the next 5 months....each with the answer, the solution. Why does it have to be a harsh look? Why can't it be a realistic look? |
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| Author: | AGRO [ Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
BlueMark wrote: I feel for the kid we select next year as a PP, ( otherwise known as The Saviour) the pressure for him to stand up and win games off his own boot is gonna be huge.
Your kidding me aren't you. The way our list is at the moment even if we drafted "Superman" as Number 1 - we would struggle. In anycase the media pressure on all Top half dozen draft picks is enormous when they aren't performing. Ask Des Headland, ask Brendan Goddard, ask Josh Fraser (the pressure on these guys from the media and their own supporters are huge at the moment). Ask Luke Livingston. Your post shows you have limited understanding of the issues we face at the club. |
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| Author: | Bozman [ Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | re |
With respect to what we are going to do with the list, we have to start off by working out how many kids we are going to be able to draft. if we get the priority pick, i would assume it would be the following: 1. PP 2. 1st round 3. 2nd round 4. 3rd round 5. 4th round 6. 5th round (maybe) 7. PSD 1st pick Therefore, in all realities, we only need 7 spaces on our main list. In my view the persons to be delisted are in this order: 1. Bannister (dad says he wants to go. I dont mind him, but sayonara) 2. Bowyer (not in future plans, fullstop) 3. Prendergast (has had a good five years and still doesnt have a position) 4. Clarke (see Bowyer) 5. McGrath (good agst adelaide, but hasnt shown much else) 6. Davies (has no footy nouse, disposal is terrible, is slow and is not up to afl standard) 7. Morell (I dont think Pagan has Morell is his grand plans) Close: 8. Bryan (Should get one more year to prove himself - however kenna wasnt so lucky, so maybe on chopping block) 9. Norman (I want to see him stay, is a huge talent who could form "the terrific trio" with livo and thornton! but i dont know whats going on behind the scenes) 10. Sporn (has had terrible year, but has shown enough prev to deserve one more year - maybe trade him back to SA for something???) 11. Scotland (I think he will be given one more year as had good year last year, but agree that he has been exposed badly this year. No interest in defensive footy.) 12. DeLuca (should be kept, is a big lad who played well last year and is still devleoping - would be very dangerous when we have a good midfield getting it down to the forwards quickly. 13. Bentick (natural footballer who should be kept. Watching him at the ground on saturday in adelaide, he appeared to run very hard with his man and work defensively very well, didnt get beaten for pace to often despite his slowness. Hopefully he can turn into josh carr type, who is also small and slow!) 14. Chambers (interesting one this as was great pre-season, but now is struggling - if he doesnt make it back b4 years end, see u later!!!) 15. Whitnall (hopefully some special trading will occur to get some value for whitters. Hopefully people will remember how good he looked when carlton got the ball down there quickly and skillfully!!) |
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| Author: | Sydney Blue [ Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
AGRO wrote: BlueMark wrote: I feel for the kid we select next year as a PP, ( otherwise known as The Saviour) the pressure for him to stand up and win games off his own boot is gonna be huge. Your kidding me aren't you. The way our list is at the moment even if we drafted "Superman" as Number 1 - we would struggle. In anycase the media pressure on all Top half dozen draft picks is enormous when they aren't performing. Ask Des Headland, ask Brendan Goddard, ask Josh Fraser (the pressure on these guys from the media and their own supporters are huge at the moment). Ask Luke Livingston. Your post shows you have limited understanding of the issues we face at the club. Enlighten us all AGRO explain to us why we have 38 highly paid professional footballers all performing well below whats expected of them |
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| Author: | thegezman [ Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
surprised to see Brett Johnson not on that list. there is no way known that either benick or simpson wont be on the list next year, simply why throw away a half finished project. karl norman is half finished but isn't making any progress, going backwards if anything, so i can understand the merits of him being shown the door, but bentick and simpson are devloping and developing pretty well considering there are offered little protection in the seniors and are coming on and off the bench. but your pretty close to the mark with your assesment of the list. i dont like the idea of us deliberatley loosing games however. |
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| Author: | thegezman [ Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:46 am ] |
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Quote: Your post shows you have limited understanding of the issues we face at the club.
agro i think you've missed his point entirely. Bluemark hasn't said that this kid whoever he is will be the saviour and will win games off his own boot, but these are a lot of the expectations a lot of impatient fans seem to have. espeically when top picks at other clubs are performing. thats why bluemark will feel sorry for which ever poor coot we pick up witha PP because the pressure will be huge. so you guys if anything are on the same page on this issue. |
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| Author: | Bozman [ Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I forgot about bret johnson - he is on the borderline to - he would want to be playing some good consistent footy for the blues in the last 10 rounds. |
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| Author: | maxyblue [ Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:59 am ] |
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those advocating that the delisting of guys like deluca and simmo after so few games should look at ashley hansen. he was part of the 2001 draft but the eagles have had to wait 3 full seasons for him to develop. deluca dnd simmo may well end up being duds, i don't have a crystal ball, but lets give them a bit more time! |
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| Author: | AGRO [ Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I haven't missed any point - all BlueMark wants is to be able to say I told you so after we get a few higher draft picks and there is no immediate improvement. 
Sydney Blue - the reason why our list of 38 highly paid performers who aren't performing at the moment is because they are patently not good enough and not able to match it with the 15 other AFL clubs at the moment - what part of being 16th on the ladder are you confused about Sydney Blue. 
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| Author: | TruBlueBrad [ Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:03 am ] |
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Bozman wrote: I forgot about bret johnson - he is on the borderline to - he would want to be playing some good consistent footy for the blues in the last 10 rounds.
I'm glad to see you've carefully examined the entire list when deciding who to cut |
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