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DE LUCA should stay
http://talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2734		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Barnesy [ Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  DE LUCA should stay
It's interesting how much of a go this anti De Luca topic got.

For the record I believe he should be continued with for a number of reasons, with him continuing in the Bullants this year, and having another pre season.

Remember he is playing at a club with low ACTUAL & POTENTIAL output at the moment.

The abovementioned enhances a reflection of him being pea hearted, lacking intensity, and totally useless.

Look at it this way.

Ruckman / mobile tall forwards are generally acknowledged as taking longer too develop.

French / Spida are 30 years old and playing their best football.

De Luca and Bryan are both 23 and have reasonable frames to work with.

De Luca has good height (202cm) and great mobility (fast over first 40 metres and reasonable endurance).

Bryan is (197cm) and just slightly heavier thean De Luca.

De Luca's development needs too come from

- taking cleaner marks
- body position in the ruck

He is an acceptable kick both stationary and on the move, and can present himself.

Sure, when the chips are down we get too see who has that extra FOLLOW ME I will LEAD the way, but it just may not be his make up.

A team requires different characteristics. De Luca was drafted after a last minute "come and do one training session" and we drafted him.

Keep him, work with him, don't slaughter him in the one's at the moment, and see how he is in 12 months. Surely with our delistings at years end he has a place too continue too develop.

I am not saying he will be the answer, but he has the make up of someone too be worked with.
Author:  jbee [ Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:43 am ]
Post subject: 
He missed most of the pre season so there are plenty on the chopping block before him.
Author:  China Blues [ Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:45 am ]
Post subject: 
Some common sense at last.

With an incredible lack of height at the club, the last thing we should be doing is chucking out the tall timber prematurely. I believe that he has a fair chance of playing 100+ games for the club before his time is up, and with a little further development , time and perseverance, he may one day develop into the cornerstone of our senior team, or at least develop into someone to trade with in future years.

With some increased mobility, confidence and sure hands I can see the day when he may prove to be the perfect foil for Fev in the forward line and take one of the oppositions taller defenders out of the game.
Author:  molsey [ Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:46 am ]
Post subject: 
Look, I advocate De Luca staying on the list in a pocket, or HF, he could still be in our best 22.... BUT

how does missing a pre-season excuse him dropping marks? The guy has hard hands and a pre-season won't stop that. Someone, somehow, has to help him with this. We've noticed it since he started, but as soon as dropped that uncontested mark in the D50 against the Crows I felt as though he would get dropped. That aspect of his game just isn't good enough.
Author:  Kaptain Kouta [ Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
DeLuca Should stay, being cycled around HF/Attacking 50 to give a tall maring target and a foil for Fev and Lance, with Bryan working in the ruck, and moving between HF-HB.
Author:  China Blues [ Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
molsey wrote:
Look, I advocate De Luca staying on the list in a pocket, or HF, he could still be in our best 22.... BUT

how does missing a pre-season excuse him dropping marks? The guy has hard hands and a pre-season won't stop that. Someone, somehow, has to help him with this. We've noticed it since he started, but as soon as dropped that uncontested mark in the D50 against the Crows I felt as though he would get dropped. That aspect of his game just isn't good enough.


I agree that dropping uncontested marks is clearly not good enough. It is either poor technique or shot confidence or a bit of both. I reckon a stint with the Bullants and two hours every day working with his new marking mentor buddies in Walker, Fisher, and Carlos should be the way to go.

And then either a session at St Patricks confessing all his sins on the footy field, or a session of pagan worship at Princes Park and Archie should be well on the way to being resurrected again, and before another easter comes around. :)
Author:  phoenix johnson [ Sun Jun 05, 2005 2:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
molsey wrote:
Look, I advocate De Luca staying on the list in a pocket, or HF, he could still be in our best 22.... BUT

how does missing a pre-season excuse him dropping marks? The guy has hard hands and a pre-season won't stop that. Someone, somehow, has to help him with this. We've noticed it since he started, but as soon as dropped that uncontested mark in the D50 against the Crows I felt as though he would get dropped. That aspect of his game just isn't good enough.


With injuries comes lack of confidence.

He's coming back from an injury and is lacking the necessary confidence to be able to do the things we know he can.
Author:  Deano Supremo [ Sun Jun 05, 2005 2:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Maybe if we played him in position instead of using him as a defence/ruck stop gap...
Author:  nightcrawler [ Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
Deluca should definately stay on the list at the end of the year. But on form, he's not in our best two ruckman, and unlike some people on this site I'm not conviced we can take three into a game.

I also suspect that by the end of 2006 the O'hailpin brothers will have caught up to/surpassed him But that is 18 months away so there's no point dwelling on it now.
Author:  phoenix johnson [ Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
DeLuca should be used as a fourth forward.

French and Bryan to swap in the ruck from the bench.
Prender can be a last resort for the ruck.
Author:  nightcrawler [ Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
phoenix johnson wrote:
DeLuca should be used as a fourth forward.

French and Bryan to swap in the ruck from the bench.
Prender can be a last resort for the ruck.


When he's finished coming back through the 2nds I would rather have Fisher as my fourth forward. He can actually mark the ball and kicks more goals.

I would think that when he's on the senior list next year Setanta will be ahead of Deluca as well in this regard. If there's one thing Setanta can do it's mark the ball and kick goals.

I honestly can't see Deluca getting picked as a forward ahead of both of those players next season (remember Mitch Clarke potentially in the mix as well).

Deluca is a ruckman. He needs to be able to hold his spot in the team as a ruckman. And we shouldn't be pretending he's a forward to excuse his rucking defficiencies when, at the moment (not saying he can't improve, or shouldn't be given time to), he can barely mark the ball and quite clearly isn't in our 6 best forwards.
Author:  phoenix johnson [ Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Then perhaps use Woofer Bear as a fourth forward?
Author:  Tractor Boy [ Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
He should stay but i think he needs Angry Pills before each game.

I like to see talls who like to throw there weight around, use there bodies and stamp themselves as Big Men, not Big Softies.

Give the guy a full preseason next year, have him beefed up a little bit, make him play angry,and then we'll see what he is really all about. Till then what other options do we really have ?

He stays, and if its on borrowed time, so be it.. He future is in his hands, no one elses. Make it happen Archie... DO IT !!! :D
Author:  Stefchook [ Sun Jun 05, 2005 6:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
If we get to the position where he's not in our best 18 (which I think he currently is), then all the better. You want to develop good depth in every position on your list. Particularly with your talls. Nothing like some healthy competition to bring out the best in players.
Author:  Stefchook [ Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
In fact if we can build up some genuine depth in tall players, I'd like to see De Luca developed as a tall defender. I know he hasn't always shone in this spot when tried there this year. But it's good to have a really tall defender. And he's got the mobility to do it. And his difficulty in taking marks wouldn't matter so much. And given that Karl is struggling at the moment, and Setanta looks like he might play forward down the track, we need more tall defenders.

That's where he played at Port Melbourne the year before we recruited him.

It might take some time. But development, development, development.
Author:  Mickstar [ Sun Jun 05, 2005 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Archie
Talk of ridding the club of a tall mobile big man is once again pure insanity.Arch had a very good debut last year and should not be forgotten.Despite his injury woes,hes struggling.Second year blues,simple as that.Will be retained next year without a doubt,and look out for a big improvement.

With Barney,Archie,and Bryan we are looking OK in the bigman dept.Also Daniel Batson shows plenty of promise as a rookie.And thats not to mention Carlos who is a shoe in for a senior list spot next year.Also his kid brother shows a fair degree of potential.
Author:  blueman [ Sun Jun 05, 2005 8:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
Deluca should be kept on the list until he either improves or we have a replacement tall that has developed enough to be in the senior team.

Theres enough on the block before him.

At the end of 2005, Id say we may trade / delist between 6 and 8 players in order to make way for 3 or 4 ready mades (as high draft picks or psd.)promotion of a rookie or two and a one or two youngsters for future development.


Players on the block from which a cull would be made include :

Bannister
Bowyer
Clarke
Davies
Norman

Players that might be traded :

Whitnall
Houlihan
Sporn

(Houlihan might be the only one we get much for. The Demons were interested in him werent they?)

De Luca wouldnt really be near the delistability of these players.

For what its worth :

Rookie promoted - Setanta O Hailpin - of course.

However - Is Pleming worth promoting? he seems to be the forgotten man. If no good, we would delist in favour of a new rookie.
Author:  The Shag [ Sun Jun 05, 2005 8:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
when i thought about it the other day i really didn't think we had that many ruckmen....but we do..!!!

as someone said...in a few years if he has developed enough we could sell him off for something worthwild....
Author:  teknodeejay [ Sun Jun 05, 2005 9:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Earl Spalding was a goose and yet still provided more value than what DeLuca does presently.

Carlton look like a VFL side trying to play AFL football.
Author:  The Shag [ Sun Jun 05, 2005 9:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
if i were DP i'd be a bit heavier than that....i see this as the final cleanout and the begining of a successful 10 years...this is why we must bottom out this year....

Delist (trade if anyone will take them):
Bentick
Bowyer
Clarke
Norman
Prendergast
Wiggins
Bannister
Morell

Trade:
Houlihan (should be worth a bit)
Whitnal (if he plays like yesterday he might be worth a bit to say Adelaide)

Rookie promotions: Setanta o'hAilpin, J.D Smith

Rookie Delistings:
Pleming
Batson

--------------------------------------
2005 Senior List:
1.Betts
2.Blackwell
3.Bryan
4.Camporeale
5.Carazzo
6.Chambers
7.De Luca
8.Fevola
9.Fisher
10.French
11.Hartlett
12.Koutoufides
13.Lappin
14.Livingston
15.Longmuir
16.McGrath
17.Raso
18.Russell
19.Scotland
20.Simpson
21.Sporn
22.Stevens
23.Teague
24.Thornton
25.Waite
26.Walker
27. Setanta o'hAilpin
28. Smith
29. Johnson
30. Davies
31. Draft choice 1
32. Draft choice 2
33. Draft choice 3
34. Draft choice 4
35. Draft choice 5
36. Whitnals trade
37. Houlihan's trade

Rookie List:
A o'hAilpin
Becker
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