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Interesting reading
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Author:  Heavs [ Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Interesting reading
I've stolen this directly from Dockerland (my mate sent it to me - freak!) but as the guy didn't have a Carlton Clem disclaimer under his name I figured it was fair game to take and use.

I just thought it was a really interesting read. Bit scary when you think about the comparison between the two clubs and the work we have in front of us ...


Begins ...


As we stagger through our 11th season in the AFL, there’s a lot of talk about the “cultureâ€
Author:  ScottSaunders [ Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
Pretty interesting that - good point of view as well and shows where we are at.

Dockers certainly didnt get the hand outs either that some "new clubs" got when they first joined.

between the retirement of alot of core group, no draft picks and a number of other things the club really was set back years.

But alas - i think with the kids we have coming through they are really starting to show something (i.e. Walker, Waite, Thorton, Livingston etc..) so all is not lost.

Do we have as good as squad as Fremantle? Not at the moment we dont but that is only becuase our kids are still relatively new with most playing under 50 games.
Author:  phoenix johnson [ Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
Very interesting.

Both Fremantle and Carlton are almost similar.
Author:  Wet Willie [ Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting reading
Heavs wrote:
Port Adelaide 14 + 5
Sydney 14 + 3
Brisbane 14 + 2
Melbourne 11 + 4
Adelaide 11 + 3
Essendon* 11 + 3
West Coast 10 + 2
Collingwood 9 + 6
Richmond 9 + 5
Hawthorn 9 + 3
Kangaroos 8 + 5
Geelong 8 + 3
Bulldogs 8 + 3
St Kilda 7 + 4
Carlton 5 + 7
Fremantle 5 + 7


But what's the point of this ladder...??

Sure, we are down the bottom...with St Kilda and Geelong...(the good end??)

& Port Adelaide, Brisbane and Melbourne are at the other end with Essendon* and Collingwood... :?

Am I supposed to be happy or sad???
Author:  Tractor Boy [ Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting reading
Wet Willie wrote:
Heavs wrote:
Port Adelaide 14 + 5
Sydney 14 + 3
Brisbane 14 + 2
Melbourne 11 + 4
Adelaide 11 + 3
Essendon* 11 + 3
West Coast 10 + 2
Collingwood 9 + 6
Richmond 9 + 5
Hawthorn 9 + 3
Kangaroos 8 + 5
Geelong 8 + 3
Bulldogs 8 + 3
St Kilda 7 + 4
Carlton 5 + 7
Fremantle 5 + 7


But what's the point of this ladder...??

Sure, we are down the bottom...with St Kilda and Geelong...(the good end??)

& Port Adelaide, Brisbane and Melbourne are at the other end with Essendon* and Collingwood... :?

Am I supposed to be happy or sad???


"Don't worry be Happy " :D
Author:  showbag [ Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
The Dockers really are a joke though aren't they? Their supporters are still looking for excuses when the reality is that they -

- share the greatest home ground advantage in the league (we've lost ours, via a lack of support from the AFL)
- can breach the salary cap and only get a minor penalty (whatever happened to Fabian Francis)
- they have a spate of premiership midfielders who request to come 'home' to the Dockers, thus giving them the upper hand in any bargaining (Bell, J Carr, Headland, Schofield) not to mention the quality of McPharlin, M Carr and Black.
- if they do make the finals they get to play on their HOME turf, not a neutral venue in their state. (Imagine how easily we would have won all of the finals we were involved in during the 90's if we'd been able to play them at Optus.)

The Dockers are well looked after by the sysyems in place by the AFL and underperform horrendously. I have no time for the Dockers at all. Crap club. if they were serious about establishing a culture around the footy club they would look at playing their games in a venue actually in Fremantle. As it is they are just 'eagles lite'.
Author:  James Bond [ Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Interesting read. Some food for thought
Author:  darknavy [ Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
What about a third column - Number of top 10 draft picks since 2000 -
carlton 2 dockers 19
Author:  CarltonClem [ Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
You'd think their midfield would stack up really well against the competition heavyweights. They have runners, they have hard ball getters. All of them would get spots in our team.

Inside players:
J.Carr
M.Carr
P.Hasleby

Outside players:
P.Bell
H.Black
D.Headland

And that's just for starters.
Author:  bluehammer [ Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
really makes you think...
Author:  jenx [ Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
showbag wrote:
The Dockers really are a joke though aren't they? Their supporters are still looking for excuses when the reality is that they -

- share the greatest home ground advantage in the league (we've lost ours, via a lack of support from the AFL)
- can breach the salary cap and only get a minor penalty (whatever happened to Fabian Francis)
- they have a spate of premiership midfielders who request to come 'home' to the Dockers, thus giving them the upper hand in any bargaining (Bell, J Carr, Headland, Schofield) not to mention the quality of McPharlin, M Carr and Black.
- if they do make the finals they get to play on their HOME turf, not a neutral venue in their state. (Imagine how easily we would have won all of the finals we were involved in during the 90's if we'd been able to play them at Optus.)

The Dockers are well looked after by the sysyems in place by the AFL and underperform horrendously. I have no time for the Dockers at all. Crap club. if they were serious about establishing a culture around the footy club they would look at playing their games in a venue actually in Fremantle. As it is they are just 'eagles lite'.


Nice one showbag, well articulated, but did you have to bring up that salary cap stuff again....To quote GMDP, "I am not looking in the rear view mirror", but God it shits me, 2 sets of rules!

However, I'll ask the question.. Would you rather spend a night watching the footy with a Dockers or a Crows supporter?
Author:  Synbad [ Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hmmmmmmmmmm..... interesting... very interesting...














What does it mean????
Author:  camel [ Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
ThePrez wrote:
Dockers certainly didnt get the hand outs either that some "new clubs" got when they first joined.


What's that supposed to mean?
Author:  camel [ Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
showbag wrote:
The Dockers really are a joke though aren't they? Their supporters are still looking for excuses when the reality is that they -

- share the greatest home ground advantage in the league (we've lost ours, via a lack of support from the AFL)
- can breach the salary cap and only get a minor penalty (whatever happened to Fabian Francis)
- they have a spate of premiership midfielders who request to come 'home' to the Dockers, thus giving them the upper hand in any bargaining (Bell, J Carr, Headland, Schofield) not to mention the quality of McPharlin, M Carr and Black.
- if they do make the finals they get to play on their HOME turf, not a neutral venue in their state. (Imagine how easily we would have won all of the finals we were involved in during the 90's if we'd been able to play them at Optus.)

The Dockers are well looked after by the sysyems in place by the AFL and underperform horrendously. I have no time for the Dockers at all. Crap club. if they were serious about establishing a culture around the footy club they would look at playing their games in a venue actually in Fremantle. As it is they are just 'eagles lite'.


There's some good points in there, and even a little bit of truth in the home ground thing. Indeed I agree with much of what you've written. But the fact is under the guise of the AFL, Carlton has probably benefitted just as much, if not more, from "home" games in finals than any non-Victorian club. But as usual people based in Melbourne seem unable to grasp this concept.

And don't try and pretend that a Carlton v Freo final played at the MCG would be on neutral turf.
Author:  AGRO [ Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
camelboy wrote:
But the fact is under the guise of the AFL, Carlton has probably benefitted just as much, if not more, from "home" games in finals than any non-Victorian club. But as usual people based in Melbourne seem unable to grasp this concept.


The final we got against the West Coast in Melbourne (in 99) only makes up for the reaming we got by having to play Brisbane in Brisbane in the 96 finals series.
Author:  ScottSaunders [ Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
camelboy wrote:
ThePrez wrote:
Dockers certainly didnt get the hand outs either that some "new clubs" got when they first joined.


What's that supposed to mean?


Like the concessions that the Weagles, Crows etc.. got
I think the AFL realised they gave them all to much and toned it down a little when Freo came in is all.

Freo compared to the other "new" sides got less than the other "new" sides did is all
Author:  camel [ Tue Jun 14, 2005 11:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
ThePrez wrote:
camelboy wrote:
ThePrez wrote:
Dockers certainly didnt get the hand outs either that some "new clubs" got when they first joined.


What's that supposed to mean?


Like the concessions that the Weagles, Crows etc.. got
I think the AFL realised they gave them all to much and toned it down a little when Freo came in is all.

Freo compared to the other "new" sides got less than the other "new" sides did is all


Fair enough, but they also probably weren't as able to hide players in their local leagues either like the Crows and the Eagles may have been able to do in order to maximise their opportunities. Second child always does it differently to the first.
Author:  showbag [ Wed Jun 15, 2005 12:14 am ]
Post subject: 
camelboy wrote:
showbag wrote:
The Dockers really are a joke though aren't they? Their supporters are still looking for excuses when the reality is that they -

- share the greatest home ground advantage in the league (we've lost ours, via a lack of support from the AFL)
- can breach the salary cap and only get a minor penalty (whatever happened to Fabian Francis)
- they have a spate of premiership midfielders who request to come 'home' to the Dockers, thus giving them the upper hand in any bargaining (Bell, J Carr, Headland, Schofield) not to mention the quality of McPharlin, M Carr and Black.
- if they do make the finals they get to play on their HOME turf, not a neutral venue in their state. (Imagine how easily we would have won all of the finals we were involved in during the 90's if we'd been able to play them at Optus.)

The Dockers are well looked after by the sysyems in place by the AFL and underperform horrendously. I have no time for the Dockers at all. Crap club. if they were serious about establishing a culture around the footy club they would look at playing their games in a venue actually in Fremantle. As it is they are just 'eagles lite'.


There's some good points in there, and even a little bit of truth in the home ground thing. Indeed I agree with much of what you've written. But the fact is under the guise of the AFL, Carlton has probably benefitted just as much, if not more, from "home" games in finals than any non-Victorian club. But as usual people based in Melbourne seem unable to grasp this concept.

And don't try and pretend that a Carlton v Freo final played at the MCG would be on neutral turf.


Camel,
i can't speak for people in Melbourne as i am in Perth (and from Perth if that makes any difference) but as far as i see it, a "home state" final is very different to a "home ground" final. A final on your 'home ground' in your 'home state' is therefore a huge advantage.

I don't see us as being on an equal playing field with the Dockers when it comes to the terms of a home final. That may all be different now though as we don't have the same stronghold at the dome as we did at optus, in terms of a home ground advantage .
Author:  tap in 79 [ Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:23 am ]
Post subject: 
showbag wrote:
The Dockers really are a joke though aren't they? Their supporters are still looking for excuses when the reality is that they -

- share the greatest home ground advantage in the league (we've lost ours, via a lack of support from the AFL)
- can breach the salary cap and only get a minor penalty (whatever happened to Fabian Francis)
-
The Dockers are well looked after by the sysyems in place by the AFL and underperform horrendously. I have no time for the Dockers at all. Crap club. if they were serious about establishing a culture around the footy club they would look at playing their games in a venue actually in Fremantle. As it is they are just 'eagles lite'.


Showbag, I wouldn't mind being reminded about the Fabian Francis case.

How much over the cap were they?

I was thinking on the bus this morning about the Lions. I was glad they beat Essendon* in the first of their grand finals...but if you add it up over three years they were over everyone else's cap by about 2 million dollars.
No wonder they kept winning.
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