Pagan on 3AW now

BlueWorld · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:28 pm **Posts:** 3768

Pagan on 3AW now:

Happy with first 1/2. WCE too good in 2nd 1/2.

Happy with development of young players- esp Waite, Walker, Thornton, Livo.

Kouta not carrying an injury.

Will try to recruit best available talent. No particular type of player.

Doesn't regret recruiting recycled players. Alternative was picking kids in the 70's with 5% chance of playing 50 games.

Carey is working with key forwards and he's very happy with what he's doing.

Back in Melb and will be at Sts game this arvo.

The Tyrant · **Posted:** Sun Jul 03, 2005 12:16 pm

BlueWorld wrote:

Pagan on AW now

that is so wrong

very unprofessional to fraternise with the players

mjonc · **Posted:** Sun Jul 03, 2005 2:35 pm

BlueWorld wrote:

Doesn't regret recruiting recycled players. Alternative was picking kids in the 70's with 5% chance of playing 50 games.

Is he serious. Maybe one or two of the recycled players will play 50 games. I'm sick of Pagans lame arse post match comments.

The Shag · **Posted:** Sun Jul 03, 2005 2:44 pm

and he's probably sick of being critisised left right and centre

Abaddon · **Joined:** Fri May 13, 2005 10:45 pm **Posts:** 423

The Shag wrote:

and he's probably sick of being critisised left right and centre

thats why they pay him the big $$$

The Shag · **Posted:** Sun Jul 03, 2005 2:57 pm

thats strange, i thought they paid him to manage the side in the best way he can...and that involves recruiting....

Abaddon · **Joined:** Fri May 13, 2005 10:45 pm **Posts:** 423

The Shag wrote:

thats strange, i thought they paid him to manage the side in the best way he can...and that involves recruiting....

and he doing a really good job there too... :roll:

phoenix johnson · **Posted:** Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:20 pm

mjonc wrote:

BlueWorld wrote:

Doesn't regret recruiting recycled players. Alternative was picking kids in the 70's with 5% chance of playing 50 games.

Is he serious. Maybe one or two of the recycled players will play 50 games. I'm sick of Pagans lame arse post match comments.

I don't understand how you can say what he did was wrong.
What would you have done in his situation?

The Shag · **Posted:** Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:24 pm

Abaddon wrote:

The Shag wrote:

thats strange, i thought they paid him to manage the side in the best way he can...and that involves recruiting....

and he doing a really good job there too... :roll:

obviously he feels we need much work on our list and is thereore throwing the games...seriously...who kicks 7 goals in the first quarter and manages 1 in the second half??? he would have told them to throw it at the half time break...unless it was just the caffine running out...

phoenix johnson · **Posted:** Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:29 pm

The Shag wrote:

Abaddon wrote:

The Shag wrote:

thats strange, i thought they paid him to manage the side in the best way he can...and that involves recruiting....

and he doing a really good job there too... :roll:

obviously he feels we need much work on our list and is thereore throwing the games...seriously...who kicks 7 goals in the first quarter and manages 1 in the second half??? he would have told them to throw it at the half time break...unless it was just the caffine running out...

Bollocks.
West Coast lifted and played to their teams potential in the second half.

mikey_m · **Joined:** Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:25 am **Posts:** 787

Pagan did what he had to when the draft picks were taken away.
I think the recruiting has been pretty good in the last few years. The long term view has been taken. We are not getting the benefit of it yet but the groundwork has been done.

Raso was a long term prospect and I like the idea of picking a very young player with heaps of physical development and upside left in him with a late pick.

Russell is a tall, skinny pacy skilled player. He will take longer than shorter stockier types with less improvement in them.

Hartlett is another who will take a few years but I am happy with what I have heard of him. He can play at either end and has real size.

The Irish boys have been a real positive but it is a long term decision to go with them. Aisake may very well play VFL seniors next year and Setanta will be playing AFL next year. Good on the club for doing it.

Walker is going to take longer than the smaller types like Sylvia and McLean. Has the attitude and desire we need. Does not drop his head and is very versatile.

Blackwell I am not so sure about. But he was only a 3rd round pick and has the skills and smarts. Question on his pace but lets wait and see.

Jesse Smith is showing plenty in the VFL and is very hard and a ball winner.

Simpson looked like he was going now where but is coming on now. Has pace and skills and still to light but is getting there. Seeems like a genuine wing man for the future.

Chris Bryan with a late pick and as a mature aged player jhas been a revelation. At worst a handy back up ruckman. Might even make it as a KPP with another pre season and some games and confidence.

Lets stop the trading for recycled guys from other clubs and keep going with the youth and the draft.

Take a look at the VFL where we picked Bryan and Adelaide got Hudson. Both 23 and 24 and ruckman who have shown a lot this year.
Look for another ruckman type in there. Draft a ruckman in the later riunds if the club feels Batson is not up to it and wait 5 years.

I know the drafting was shocking in the last 10 years. I just feel the club has had its hands tied with the penalties and has done pretty well in the regard with what we had to work with.

The Shag · **Posted:** Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:53 pm

never mind the bullocks, heres the sex pistols...

camel · **Posted:** Sun Jul 03, 2005 5:09 pm

I wonder if Pagan recruited only kids from the draft, all at the high numbers that they would have been, you know the part of the draft were most club pass on their picks ... anyway, let's assume Denis did take a purely a youth approach in 2002-03 on draft day what would people be saying when half of them were playing in the twos with no sign of an AFL future and the other half were getting pulled apart every week by guys taller, stronger and fitter than them?

I'm not saying the recycled route was the best or only option, but I do think that under circumstances Pagan's philosophy was spot on. Let's face it you never actually know how any recruit is going to perform for the club until they actually get out on the field.

So yeah, if Pagan went solely with youth there is a chance they could have performed consistently at AFL level, but as mentioned I think Pagan's philosophy of a mixture of mature recycled players and kids was the right way to go. Martyn and Harford aside all of our recycled players would have been under 25 at the time of recruiting. We had no right to expect us to be picking up 10 year + players either way with the picks/selections we had. So let's judge Pagan's recruiting from when he has actually been able to embrace the draft to its fullest potential, ie 2004 and onwards.

BrizzyBlue · **Posted:** Sun Jul 03, 2005 6:00 pm

mikey_m wrote:

Pagan did what he had to when the draft picks were taken away.
I think the recruiting has been pretty good in the last few years. The long term view has been taken. We are not getting the benefit of it yet but the groundwork has been done.

Raso was a long term prospect and I like the idea of picking a very young player with heaps of physical development and upside left in him with a late pick.

Russell is a tall, skinny pacy skilled player. He will take longer than shorter stockier types with less improvement in them.

Hartlett is another who will take a few years but I am happy with what I have heard of him. He can play at either end and has real size.

The Irish boys have been a real positive but it is a long term decision to go with them. Aisake may very well play VFL seniors next year and Setanta will be playing AFL next year. Good on the club for doing it.

Walker is going to take longer than the smaller types like Sylvia and McLean. Has the attitude and desire we need. Does not drop his head and is very versatile.

Blackwell I am not so sure about. But he was only a 3rd round pick and has the skills and smarts. Question on his pace but lets wait and see.

Jesse Smith is showing plenty in the VFL and is very hard and a ball winner.

Simpson looked like he was going now where but is coming on now. Has pace and skills and still to light but is getting there. Seeems like a genuine wing man for the future.

Chris Bryan with a late pick and as a mature aged player jhas been a revelation. At worst a handy back up ruckman. Might even make it as a KPP with another pre season and some games and confidence.

Lets stop the trading for recycled guys from other clubs and keep going with the youth and the draft.

Take a look at the VFL where we picked Bryan and Adelaide got Hudson. Both 23 and 24 and ruckman who have shown a lot this year.
Look for another ruckman type in there. Draft a ruckman in the later riunds if the club feels Batson is not up to it and wait 5 years.

I know the drafting was shocking in the last 10 years. I just feel the club has had its hands tied with the penalties and has done pretty well in the regard with what we had to work with.

Refreshing to see a poster state the facts as they really are, instead of the constant drivel that some tossers put up about Pagan. Anybody would think that these school children who constantly critisize DP are expereienced AFL coaches. Get it into your thick scones, whilst we have promising kids, we ain't got no depth. This means we have an ordinary list, but we won't have for long. Give me a break. Better still Piss off!! :roll:

The Shag · **Posted:** Sun Jul 03, 2005 6:04 pm

As i see it there are 3 types of supporters that we currently have following our club...

1. Pagan has to go supporters
2. our list is shit supporters (im a part of this group)
3. Optimistic supporters

the 2nd one is probably the closest to reality....

bluehammer · **Posted:** Sun Jul 03, 2005 6:19 pm

This is a terribly misleading post.

Just tuned in and it's Bruce and Phil - Pagan's not on at all...

Wolfe · **Posted:** Sun Jul 03, 2005 6:21 pm

Another point made was that the Senior players where failing to support the younger players .. Guys like Waite / T-Bird / Livo have lacked the senior guys guidance which i think most of us on TC have als made criticisms of the leadership group. Maybe thats part of the reason why he hasnt put in some of the Kids from the draft why put them in when the seniors are failing our 2nd teer players and so would be even worse having the new kids with no guidance on the field.....

I expect next season also a big change on the leadership group .... well it is hoped that we develope some of our other players to take responsibility hell most of the Seniors we have doin that are doin jack s$#%^#^

luke · **Joined:** Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:32 am **Posts:** 5

if dp didnt use retreads who the hell would be out there playing now. we can now slowley get rid of them now that we can uase the draft system properly (best second half of footy iv seen from another club all year )

mjonc · **Posted:** Sun Jul 03, 2005 8:32 pm

camelboy wrote:

I wonder if Pagan recruited only kids from the draft, all at the high numbers that they would have been, you know the part of the draft were most club pass on their picks ... anyway, let's assume Denis did take a purely a youth approach in 2002-03 on draft day what would people be saying when half of them were playing in the twos with no sign of an AFL future and the other half were getting pulled apart every week by guys taller, stronger and fitter than them?

I'm not saying the recycled route was the best or only option, but I do think that under circumstances Pagan's philosophy was spot on. Let's face it you never actually know how any recruit is going to perform for the club until they actually get out on the field.

So yeah, if Pagan went solely with youth there is a chance they could have performed consistently at AFL level, but as mentioned I think Pagan's philosophy of a mixture of mature recycled players and kids was the right way to go. Martyn and Harford aside all of our recycled players would have been under 25 at the time of recruiting. We had no right to expect us to be picking up 10 year + players either way with the picks/selections we had. So let's judge Pagan's recruiting from when he has actually been able to embrace the draft to its fullest potential, ie 2004 and onwards.

What Pagan has done since 2004 I'm happy with Camel, no problems there. Mikey has shown the benefits of the years since.

What annoys me is I don't like hearing statements like 'IF we picked kids with picks 70+ we had 5% chance of them playing 50 games' when the same odds or even slimer odds apply to recycled players playing 50 games.

To me there is more upside to a rookie than someone who has been delisted by another club or traded for a high pick. Longmuir and Chambers have again proved that theory correct.

luke · **Joined:** Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:32 am **Posts:** 5

should have left them in the west

Pagan on 3AW now

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