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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:29 am 
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Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:44 am
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cluck

I promised myself I'd stay away from the boards but...

I read with great interest the salary discussion within the 'PAgan on Sports 927 prob gonna be a good listen' thread (amongst others). Interesting because there are suggestions within the thread about campo and his relative worth to the club - often salary figures are bandied about and stats. So rather than sit back and watch such contructive debate be buried within an otherwise unrelated thread (where many people will miss it), I've decided to start a new thread before initiating this challenge.

CC/synbad (+others) - can any of you categorically state what the average salary for campo was over the length of his contract? If not, then perhaps you might like to provide people with your educated guesses?

Your both intelligent enough to realise that 650,000 (if that is the correct figure) is NOT the average per annum amount that campo has been paid. The average per annum renumeration is likely to be significantly less given the nature of backloaded contracts (I've taken 10% of the stated figure as 'significant - something that I dont think is unreasonable). Do either of you disagree with this?

However, your posts often quote this magical figure without putting it into context. As such, your posts are misleading (perhaps deliberately so) to people who come across them that have no prior knowledge of the terms of campo's contract.

So, my challenge to you guys is to either
1. Come up with averaged annual salary payment over the contract, and
2. Have the balls to mount a contructive debate on campo's worth using the ACTUAL average salary rather than a figure which you yourselves know to be overly inflated.

And with that I'll sit back and watch with interest to see whether you are capable of providing some new material for people to read and hopefully think about :)


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:14 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Campo has been a loyal servant and over the past few years I have supported him against abuse, nearly even getting into a fight at the Telstra Dome during one match when I leapt to his defence, yet now he's run his race.

In a world where a spade is called a spade Campo wouldn't be playing on next year, but he's been loyal, which some may say he's been paid well for. Also we need some senior experience - when a player is being an effective contributor and we need some leadership - to many supporters on field Campo doesn't show much of this by his contributions. Three goals for the year?

Many of us feel the cow has been milked dry as far as Campo's career is concerned, a level headed assessment is he won't overcome whatever injury he's carrying and he is the footballing equivalent of a punch drunk boxer, ableit through many years service to the navy blue.

It's not about people here having to provide an accurate yearly earning for Campo over the period of his contract, it's really about the position Elliot and previous coaching panels have put our list in by their decisions that for the fabric of the club, senior players like Campo who are no longer effective contributors on the field have to stick round and provide the club with something senior players can give a young group.

For me, it's not personal with Campo, it's political and it's a reality of the predicament of having shoddy list management made worse by draft penalties.

Give Campo $200k a year for two years and be done with it.

I hope Campo gets B.O.G. this week and kicks four goals, but it won't happen.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:05 am 
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Bruce Doull
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I think the challenge is really on you , BM and others to tell us exactly what Campo is on.
The most important thing about Campo is he is playing like a man who isnt worth a crumpet and has done very little over 4 years.

He may have been given the contract by Elliot but he also knew like EVERYBODY ELSE that "Carlton never loses players".. that Elliot was a drunk and he had lost the plot.,
The rort was to say "Im going to Port unless you give me whatever amount over four years"... they all did it.. Allison specialised in it...Campo took advantage of it himself and now were [REDACTED] because of these blood suckers who have held a gun to the clubs head over years . Now its culminated to this.

Campo wants the big bux???

Well i want Campo and others to play like they deserve it.
If they cant play like they deserve it as Sticks said.. "They have a responsibility to the kids"

Whether I complained five years ago is irrelevant.
Whats relevant is the club is a rabble ...and players have been overpaid and not putting in for YEARS.

Mathew Allens article kind of explains the mentality.... in a nut shell"its about me and us not the club"
As 79 says.. Campo just cant do it..
He doesnt train like it... he doesnt play like it... but he still gets it...
Same with Lance...

Theres alot of help there for the club if the pair were on bugger all.. (which is what theyre worth)

You just dont get it...!!!


Were [REDACTED] because of huge contracts to bananas like that and youre all honky dory about it... :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:36 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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79Vintage wrote:
Three goals for the year?



Faaaaaaaaaaark, is that true?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:40 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Here's 10 pages on the topic ... knock yourself out. ;)

http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB2/vi ... php?t=2160

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:21 am 
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Craig Bradley
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No, Synbad you have made numerous allegations against Campo and other players. It is up to you to substantiate them and at this stage you have never been able to do so. In fact your claims have been pretty well discredited, but it seems you have adopted the Rumsfeld tactic. Keep telling the lie until it becomes accepted fact.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:54 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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camelboy wrote:
Here's 10 pages on the topic ... knock yourself out. ;)

http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB2/vi ... php?t=2160


:wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:25 am 
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Trevor Keogh

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he has only been a loyal servant to the club because he has never been on under 500k a year. All of a sudden they offer him pea nuts and his form drops off weres the loyalty there buddy he should be thanking his lucky stars that he even got close to earning that money cause he just aint worth it Michael Voss isn't on that amount.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:40 am 
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Ken Hands
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I wish they would sign Campo already and we can move on to the other 30+ players on our list! :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:41 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Synbad and true facts, this I've got to see.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:49 am 
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Ken Hands
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And guys play the ball not the man please, we seem to be going round in circles to win a pissing contest instead of sticking to the discussion at hand.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:53 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Synbad, this is so typical of you. A reasonable question has been posed to you and yet again you highjack the discussion with your emotive blast against players who you have an agenda against.

Nobody is disputing that Campo's best days are well behind him, however, it is you that constantly derides both he & Lance. Keep repeating the line that he is a hack, gives nothing, is overpaid, holds the club to ransom etc etc and eventually some people will adopt it as fact.

Whatever your agenda is, you certainly know how to get populist support for your opinion- repeat everything often and loudly!

Has it ever dawned on you that maybe you don't speak for everyone associated with the club and that maybe you don't have the ear of all those that you have access to?

I too am of the opinion that we don't get good value from Campo these days, however, I also have the brain power to see that there are other issues requiring resolution at the club of at least equal if not greater importance, rather than banging on about the same thing all the time.

Also, I'd be fairly careful referring to a former club president as a "drunk" in a public forum. From what I understand he is a pretty litigious sort of guy and doesn't mind court appearances in defending himself.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:07 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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My headache is turning into a MIGRAINE.

Find something else to talk about will you? this is as bad as four 3 year-olds sitting in the back seat going "are we there yet? are we there yet? are we there yet?"


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:14 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Some get headaches other get confused. Me i just love the quality reading.
:wink: :wink:

This talk its Champagne Comedy. :D :D

Keep it coming i'm bored... :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:19 am 
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Robert Walls
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Mrs Caz wrote:
My headache is turning into a MIGRAINE.


me too Caz.

As for a certain former president well I would say that is in the public domain. Don't think I'm in any danger of getting sued if I call Warne a womaniser.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:22 am 
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Ken Hunter
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did you know campo spelt backwards is opmac?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:33 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Blue Bird, no where near as defamatory as what was said re Elliot. I have no time or respect for Elliot, in fact I am totally opposed to & appalled by what happened to our club whilst he was president.

Given the previous discussions on this forum re being careful about defamatory statements, I simply thought that Synbad should tread carefully. Truth is not a defence in defamation cases.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:33 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:26 pm
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On the link that camel posted, I have a post on page 7 which i'm going to quote verbatim now. And I am allowed to use my own intellectual property :)

Here it is:

"I've kept my head out of this (for fear of being labelled a Camporeale basher again)

However, it is not hard to see where Camporeale could be being paid 620K this year.

If his last contract was for 4 years at 600K (when signed in 2000 - and was to last for 4 years i.e. 2001-2004. That equals a payment of $2.4 million. So in years 2001/02 he received 2 x 600K = $1.2 million of that $2.4 million.

However, because when Collins came into power end of 2002 and immediately told the players to take a pay cut, some had their contracts extended, in some cases because they had extended the terms of their contracts, in the short term, we had no choice but to pay some players peanuts in return for paying them in the future. It's like when a trust fund accidentally doesn't pay as much as it should under the terms of the trust deed, the beneficiary may say, ok, pay me less now, but I want the required payment and make up payments combined later.

If Camporeale then took a payment of 300K in 2003 (in order to keep up under the cap), then he could rightfully (due to contractual obligations) demand 900K over the next 1 year (2004) (contractually enforceable - the 900K remaining from the $1.2 million owed after 2002). However, say he then demanded he be paid $400K for 2005. If the club doesn't sign, then Camporeale can contractually (and enforceable in a court of law) claim 900K for 2004. So the club has no choice but to say, ok, you're worth $400K. Let's split $1.3 million over 2 years in order to reduce the impact on the salary cap.

So a new contract is redrawn (using clauses from the original contract which would state that after year 2003 he had been paid $1.5 million for 3 years - with $900K owing (due to terms of 2000 contract - the $2.4 million I have talked about). This new contract that covers 2004-2005 - would state (or imply) that he would be signed for $400K in year 2005 but because we can't afford a 900K player in 2004, the payments would be split evenly between the years 2004-2005 for $1.3 million.

Divided evenly between 2 years, $1.3 million = $650K.

That is an entirely plausible scenario verbs. So over 5 years Camporeale has received $2.8 million (which is the same as 4 years @ 600K + 1 year at $400K) - Camporeale has therefore averaged $560K per year of his last contract and extension.

It also shows that due to his taking a 50% pay cut (and only paying him 300K) then we can afford him at $620K - even $650K.

It also shows that he's received an average $500K/year over the term of his contract and extension"


So the bottom line is, I think he's been paid an average 500K/year. It is completely implausible that he play for nothing for the contract extension year because he's contractually allowed to receive that money, that's Elliott's fault. Just like Kouta.

For those of you who think that he very selflessly took a massive pay cut in order to basically play a contract extension year for free, if you were contractually allowed to receive a certain amount of money from work and they asked you to work the next year basically for free, would you? No way.

If Camporeale had shown more on-field leadership, been less selfish on the field etc., then I could believe he took a pay cut because I think that on-field behaviour is fairly indicative of off-field attitude and character. White line fever is different; that's a personality thing and character and personality are two different things in my book.

If he was an on-field leader who didn't back chat to the umpires then I'd be more willing to accept that he might have played that extra year for free, but ask yourselves this question, would you do it if you had a legally enforceable contract to receive that much money, would you turn it down, on a purely pragmatic basis?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:37 am 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Unfortunately, when reading that entire thread, your theory doesn't hold up at all. You made it all up.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:53 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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It's plausible and the fact that I have relied on the same Age sources as you did for yours. :roll:

The key sticking point, which none of you seem to understand is his apparent "pay cut"...

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