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| Once the fundamentals are in place, then what? http://talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3500 |
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| Author: | JohnM [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Once the fundamentals are in place, then what? |
OK, I think it's pretty clear by now that on-field we've got some major restructuring to do. And it makes sense to do that first, then add the cream to the cake. But, while it's perfectly understandable for people to not want to get ahead of themselves, I'm wondering, as a club, just how far behind we are in the little things (let alone the fundamentals). For example, I had a long discussion the other day with an ex-athlete who represented Australia quite successfully in the 100m in the 90's. Over the years, he's also worked with a couple of AFL and NRL teams, specifically to improve the speed of individual players. I questioned the validity of such an exercise, given that speed is probably the one skill we all assume one is either born with, or not. But he told me some interesting facts, the summary of which is that the ability to run blindingly fast is a gift, but the ability to run a lot faster than you currently do, is a physical skill that can be taught. Basically, the premise that he proved with certain AFL and NRL footballers is that most guys can be taught to run significantly quicker than they currently can. Interesting stuff. The nub of which is, have we as a club done enough in this area (not just specific speed training, but in other non-core activities) to warrant our place in a professional competition? And do we have faith that the club has the people in place to ensure we will do this sort of thing in the future? |
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| Author: | dannyboy [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:51 am ] |
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Good question john. I do know Essendon* did this and look how fast they are  Sorry just kidding. Lloyd actually said he improved his speed a lot under this sort of training. So yes I think blokes like AB Smith Blackers Bryan etc should taught to run and increase their speed - if speed is a part of this game (and it is) then it is another skill they should be working on to improve.
Anything can be improved upon. Anything. |
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| Author: | molsey [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 10:54 am ] |
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Once we get the fundamentals right, I say we resume salary cap rorting and recruiting stars from other clubs. |
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| Author: | Pickle [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:07 am ] |
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JohnM I’m not sure we do have the right people there. I’m a fan of Pagan but I feel he needs to be complimented with fresh assistants at the moment. Some of Pagan’s quotes recently have me concerned – I heard these second hand but here are a couple: On responding to a question about his formula for success Pagan said ‘my formula for success is Wayne Carey’ – does this mean our whole game plan and future relies upon recruiting a guy equivalent to one of the best players in the last 50 years? Another question from a carlton member at a function was around his coaching staff and if they will be reviewed at the end of the year, Pagan’s response was ‘it’s not the coaching staff but more the squad that needs reviewing’ – this may be true but it seems a bit too dismissive for me I believe our coaching panel needs some fresh air. Need a ruck coach not a state govt minister who pops in now and then (as much as I love Harry) Need a dedicated forward coach (like TD at St Kilda). What about swap Tony E and Barry M - is it worth a try? Is Libba our midfield coach? I don’t want us to rely on the DP way of doing things – everyone needs to reinvent themselves now and then, including DP. |
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| Author: | phoenix johnson [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:11 am ] |
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Re: the assistant coachs. I'd look at trying to bring in one or both of Voss and Rehn. |
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| Author: | Pickle [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:17 am ] |
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PJ I agree, if either was available bring them in - Rehn especially as I think Voss has another year and also Rehn could help out in a few ares apart from the ruck |
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| Author: | verbs [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:37 am ] |
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phoenix johnson wrote: Re: the assistant coachs.
I'd look at trying to bring in one or both of Voss and Rehn. Who knows how many years Voss has up his sleeve. |
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| Author: | Mrs Caz [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
JohnM, we do have a sprinting coach at the moment, but he is not that inspiring to look at, so I don't know how effective his methods are. I'm sure the club could improve in many departments |
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| Author: | JohnM [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:01 pm ] |
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OK, so if we're not running on all cylinders in every department, what's stopping us? Is it finances? Is it an old-fashioned mindset within the football department? Or is it an unwillingness to throw resources at a playing group that the club doesn't believe in? I'd hate to think that Russell, Hartlett, Blackwell, Waite, Thornton, Walker, Fisher and co. aren't getting the very best development in the AFL. Because that's what we're going to have to do: recruit great talent, and give them the very best development program in the AFL. Talent is vital, but it isn't enough. See St Kilda and Freo. Great facilities, money and a good coach aren't enough. See Collingwood. You need both. See Brisbane, who had the talent and the committment in the football department to always be on the leading edge. IV drips, coolrooms, a well-stocked assistant coaching squad, and God knows what else. See Adelaide circa 97 and 98. Talent, but awesome resources and a desire to be one step ahead of the other 15 clubs in terms of the off-field 1%ers. I want to know that Carlton is going to be the hardest working, most intelligent and passionately dedicated club in the competition. I want to know that Collo, Denis, Malouf and the board are PROGRESSIVE thinkers, looking out for all the little 1%ers. Sure, they've got a cake to bake first. But I want to know that when that sucker comes out of the oven, we've got the skills and willingness to decorate it like no other club. Hmmm, I wonder if Denis has ever used a cake analogy? "You know, I hear people talk all the time about the little things but by gee, there's no point trying to put cream on a cake when you haven't even baked the thing yet." I might send it to him. |
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| Author: | camel [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:09 pm ] |
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Quality as usual JM. I've been quietly making comments about our failure to be a progressive clib for ages. The only thing we excelled at recently was under the table payments, clearly we need to work our arses off to lead the football industry again. I just bloody hhope we can do it! |
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| Author: | The Tyrant [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:37 pm ] |
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Brown paper bags for all! |
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| Author: | AGRO [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Once the fundamentals are in place, then what? |
JohnM wrote: For example, I had a long discussion the other day with an ex-athlete who represented Australia quite successfully in the 100m in the 90's.
The only one I know of who made the finals of even the Commonwealth Games during the 90s is Matt Shirvington - who ran 10.03 at Kuala Lumpur at the 98 games - I reckon he would have broken 10 seconds but there was something quite substantial in his way holding him back - but for some curious reason it doesn't have the same effect on our Black African Athlete friends. 
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| Author: | The Tyrant [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:44 pm ] |
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thats when we consolidate by adding experienced veterans, like Shane Parker and Peter Riccardi |
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| Author: | TruBlueBrad [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:48 pm ] |
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molsey wrote: Once we get the fundamentals right, I say we resume salary cap rorting and recruiting stars from other clubs.
Its a proven forumla for success
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| Author: | Laserkid [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I hate to say this but I think putting the words Progressive and Carlton together in the same sentence is an oxymoron. Two aspects mentioned so far are sprint training and training facilities. We are below other clubs in these two areas. Other areas which would apprear to require improvement are * Modivation I do not know if we have a Modivator as such now. I cannot remember mention of one since Dr Rudy 20 or so years ago. I cannot believe that we are doing any work in this area , just look at the scoreboard * Decision Making Capabilities There are new computer based training programs comming out that are designed to train team athletes better decision making under pressure. In the last article I read about this for football, other clubs were mentioned as looking at it but not Carlton (otherwise Wiggo would be the crash dummy) * DNA Testing. F***ed if I know how this helps but Adelaide and others have been looking into it. * Strength We are simply not as strong as other clubs. Maybe it is just that our list is longer. * Culture We have lost the Carlton culture. The one where the only thing that counts is Premerships. I loved the story about Vossy putty in this place one of the kids who laughed at one of the other guys. Can you image this happening at Carlton ? Not a chance. |
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| Author: | frank dardew [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Devaluation of brand |
Great post John M I think the worst legacy of the Elliot era at Carlton was the devaluing of the Carlton brand - he effectively ran it into the ground What the new board I think has tried to do is resurrect it - not sure that it has been a total success but with record memberships the last 3 years things are turning However the difficulties of getting sponsors recently has been evidence of this devaluation It also doesnt help where side is performing poorly over the last 3 years and there is not a lot for young and new supporters to get excited about. Accordingly we collectively as hard core carlton supporters and members have to work doubly hard to ensure that we pass on the faith to new or young supporters.The club also has to work twice as hard as others because we are not at this stage glamorous or flavour of the month and their is a young audience that needs to be wooed and convinced to take on the navy blues On the field whilst we need to get better and improve our talent pool we need to recruit exciting new young players with a touch of panache As a group we need to offer the club with assistance on any projects they embark upon and encourage and support vigorously those projects Moreover dont allow the press et al to denigrate our great club take it up to them vigorously if they do - we may be down but were great and will be great again Righto lets roll up our sleeves and get to it FAAD. |
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| Author: | Jarusa [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 5:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
There is one little project which should be happening within the next few weeks that is one of these little 1%ers that is an attempt to get towards making fundamentals right. If it works well and is supported it will give our club an advantage over clubs like Collingwood and Essendon*. |
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| Author: | Mrs Caz [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Awww, c'mon Jar...don't keep it to yourself...share with your brothers and sisters 
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| Author: | Jarusa [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:36 pm ] |
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All in good time, the t's have got to be dotted and the g's have to be crossed and I don't know what is happening with the i's. Should be happening soon.
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| Author: | TruBlueBrad [ Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:50 pm ] |
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Internet? |
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