TalkingCarlton :: View topic - How can we be so bad?

I am fed up with the negative style of game we are playing, flooding all the time & dropping Whitnall into defence as a loose man. How the bloody hell do you kick a score when there is no one forward of the F@%&#! ball.

Why the hell bother bringing kids into the team if they are going to spend most of the day on the bench?

It is very disheartening to hear that players like Kouta are disinterested.

I get the impression that Denis & the match committee don't have any answers & have very little imagination on match day.

It seems to me that the coach & senior players are not reading off the same page & are at odds with each other circa 2002.

I am not convinced that Denis is the man to solve these problems & I am starting to think that the game has passed him by.

I agree that he is too defensive and boring. Why throw Lance back for the last 5-10 minutes of each quarter? What are we trying to achieve? This is one thing about which I'll never agree with Denis. What are we guarding against? The move makes no sense to me.

Blues2005 wrote:

Weren't we named earlier in the week as the team that gives up the most goals in "Red time" in the league?

re: how can we be so bad?

the coach has lost the players.

Abaddon wrote:

re: how can we be so bad?

the coach has lost the players.

Sing a new tune, Abbadon....this one's boring.

can't so what did he say!!!!!

Author:	dane [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:	How can we be so bad?
Is there anyway to describe todays performance as anything other than pitiful? were there any positives?

Author:	Abaddon [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 4:44 pm ]
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re: how can we be so bad? the coach has lost the players.

Author:	Tractor Boy [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:05 pm ]
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LOST - not that fantastic show screened on 7. LOST Carlton FC , can't blame coach any longer, not that i ever did though i do question his game plan. But seriously the way our players go about there football it wouldn't matter what Denis tells them. Who's sending the vaccum cleaners down to Optus cause we need a clean out..

Author:	Wojee [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:57 pm ]
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Our midfield is non-existant. Can't get the ball to the forward line and can't apply pressure to help the backline out. How a St Kilda player can get the ball at the centre bounce and then run completely unimpeded for a good 10m almost every time has me baffled.

Author:	blues8182 [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:57 pm ]
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I am dead set tired of all of this shit, seeing the club in the position that we are in is hurting like hell. Blind Freddy can see that there serious problems at the club & those problems go from the coach down. I am fed up with the negative style of game we are playing, flooding all the time & dropping Whitnall into defence as a loose man. How the bloody hell do you kick a score when there is no one forward of the @#$%&! ball. Why the hell bother bringing kids into the team if they are going to spend most of the day on the bench? It is very disheartening to hear that players like Kouta are disinterested. I get the impression that Denis & the match committee don't have any answers & have very little imagination on match day. It seems to me that the coach & senior players are not reading off the same page & are at odds with each other circa 2002. I am not convinced that Denis is the man to solve these problems & I am starting to think that the game has passed him by. There are several players who should not be at Carlton next season. It feels to me like there is a power struggle going on & that the fallout will be massive. But I am sick of it, & IMO anybody who can't get their shit together for the good of the club can get the hell out of the joint & I don't care what their position at the club is. I would rather get beat like today with a team of kids & a rookie coach all having a red hot go than put up with the crap that is going on at the club at the moment.

TalkingCarlton http://talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

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Author:	Blues2005 [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:28 pm ]
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blues8182 wrote: I am fed up with the negative style of game we are playing, flooding all the time & dropping Whitnall into defence as a loose man. How the bloody hell do you kick a score when there is no one forward of the F@%&#! ball. Why the hell bother bringing kids into the team if they are going to spend most of the day on the bench? It is very disheartening to hear that players like Kouta are disinterested. I get the impression that Denis & the match committee don't have any answers & have very little imagination on match day. It seems to me that the coach & senior players are not reading off the same page & are at odds with each other circa 2002. I am not convinced that Denis is the man to solve these problems & I am starting to think that the game has passed him by. In my opinion Denis is still the man for the job. However you can't help but question some of his matchday tactics. Is he really performing well on matchdays? I agree that he is too defensive and boring. Why throw Lance back for the last 5-10 minutes of each quarter? What are we trying to achieve? This is one thing about which I'll never agree with Denis. What are we guarding against? The move makes no sense to me. I don't agree with the flood at the moment either. Firstly, it seems to actually be having little impact. Secondly, it means that if you do get the ball in the flood there is nothing forward of the ball to whom to kick! I'd rather just play the game with reckless abandon and lose by the same margin! I'm also pissed off that Denis doesn't seem to trust our young players. Why not give Russell a proper go? He came on at the 22nd minute mark of the second quarter, played a bit of the third quarter I think and the last quarter when the game was over. Give him a chance! Ok fair enough he can't play 4 quarters so play him 3 quarters! What have we got to lose? The same was with Setanta, he never really got a chance, he even had to start the last quarter on the bench in the Richmond game when we were down by 80 odd points anyway. Some decisions make no sense. I just think some of his decisions on matchday are baffling. Kouta on Hansen last week in Perth. The use of Kouta in defence is something else I don't agree with. He's our number one ball winner, so let him win the bloody ball! He can't do that playing on Ackland! Why not be a bit more imaginative? I like his move of putting Carrazzo into the midfield. He played a fair portion of the game in the midfield today and got 22 possessions. Good move and that's what I like to see. Got a run on Luke Ball and got a few kicks on him too. But otherwise there's no imagination in his coaching. Why not try Livo up forward? Even Thornton today, who had no real matchup when Kosi was in the ruck and therefore was on Powell! He might even kick a goal up forward! I know Denis is hardly working with the best list in the world but he's being so reactive, so negative, unwilling to take a risk for fear that it might not come off. Release the shackles a bit Denis!

Author:	Wojee [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:31 pm ]
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Blues2005 wrote: I agree that he is too defensive and boring. Why throw Lance back for the last 5-10 minutes of each quarter? What are we trying to achieve? This is one thing about which I'll never agree with Denis. What are we guarding against? The move makes no sense to me. Weren't we named earlier in the week as the team that gives up the most goals in "Red time" in the league?

Author:	The Shag [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:31 pm ]
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our tackling is what let us down today...in that 3rd quarter if our tackling was strong it would have totally stuffed them up....

Author:	Blues2005 [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:45 pm ]
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Wojee wrote: Blues2005 wrote: I agree that he is too defensive and boring. Why throw Lance back for the last 5-10 minutes of each quarter? What are we trying to achieve? This is one thing about which I'll never agree with Denis. What are we guarding against? The move makes no sense to me. Weren't we named earlier in the week as the team that gives up the most goals in "Red time" in the league? Lance is a forward Wojee. By throwing Lance back we lose a target to kick to up the ground. This can make us more indirect and lead to even more goals anyway from turnovers. And if we're conceding the most red time goals even with Lance there then what's the point? Might as well keep him forward, how many goals does he actually stop?

Author:	Wojee [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:53 pm ]
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Lance is the one who plays loose down back because he's one of the best readers of the play at the club. I'm not defending the tactic, just suggesting a possible reason for it. He could play forward, back or erect a net across the opposition's goals and we'd still get hammered.

Author:	TruBlueBrad [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 6:58 pm ]
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Problems start and end in the midfield

Author:	Kaptain Kouta [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:06 pm ]
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Abaddon wrote: re: how can we be so bad? the coach has lost the players. Sing a new tune, Abbadon....this one's boring.

Author:	Wojee [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:08 pm ]
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Kaptain Kouta wrote: Abaddon wrote: re: how can we be so bad? the coach has lost the players. Sing a new tune, Abbadon....this one's boring. Boring, and IMO off-key.

Author:	dannyboy [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:10 pm ]
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Let him blow, we all need to blow there is pain building in all our hearts. truth is none of us know. for me next year will tell. Next year if its this shit again then I'll join the chorus but I don't think it will be. I think next year begins to young team playing pagan's way and a lot, A LOT of new blood.

Author:	mikkey [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:12 pm ]
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Have a listen to Pagan's post match presser on afl.com - interesting stuff. Puts a few things into perspective.

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Author:	dannyboy [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:15 pm ]
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can't so what did he say!!!!!

Author:	mikkey [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:31 pm ]
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dannyboy wrote: can't so what did he say!!!!! It is 18 minutes - hard to give a full report. Denis was very composed. Happy with first half as the instructions were to play hard and work hard especially without the ball. Had praise fro Carazzo (clear the he will get more runs in the midfield) and Simpson. Felt that they just cant sustain the effort. Talked bout the lack of talent but would not be drawn to strong statements regarding "clean out" - but you can read between the lines. Clear indication that Fisher and Betts will be back next week. Was very clear that he has not lost his "fire" and that he has a little black book for when things turn around. Interesting comments about Fevola, was very disappointed with him after some good weeks. Said he never coached such an enigma like him (the way he can be up and down) but clear about his talent. Was very strong about that Fev had to be signed - can't let go of such a talent in the situation we are in. It was not so much what he said - it was more the "vibe of it" . Made me feel like Pago is still in control and has a plan. But maybe it is just me hanging onto straws..

Author:	dannyboy [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:33 pm ]
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thank you very much.

Author:	Wolfe [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:07 pm ]
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There is a lot of off field stuff behind the scenes Mikky keep the faith though i know its really hard but there is lot the supporterd dont see which are happening behind the scenes

Author:	The Vet [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:16 pm ]
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I've just listened to the press conference, and I beg to differ with Mikkey. I thought Pagan, although composed, was at a loss. Bemoned the lack of elite talent at the club, again and again and again. Said there was no support for the midfield. Wanted the kids to step up and become 20 possession players - praised Carrazo in the middle today, and said that Russell was being given a blooding. Said he had never worked with anyone like fevola - an elite talent - whom they had to sign because everyone was after him, but you can't tell which one will turn up. Dragged him for lack of discipline - the two fifty's. He was constatntly asked about the cull, and he said he wont give them the headline they want, and then this: "We are going to go through the next seven weeks, try and win a couple of games if we can, and then digest the information available, and make the best decision we can for the Carlton football Club" Pagan says he is there to do the job, and see it through - hasn't lost the enthusiasm, writing names in a little black book, , but I must say it all sounds a bit hollow. It was the same as it has been all year, but I don't think it was clear, or that he sounded in control or with a plan. He sounded to me like he too was waiting for the year to end, and to get trading. The Club doesn't sound like its a great place to be at the moment.