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Went to the game today for a close look at our leadership group given the focus this site has had on them recently.

Kouta is not interested and is not a leader in terms of communication and body language. His body language was shocking today and just as bad as Fev's. I had the glasses on Kouta for a lot of the play and during the breaks. He is rarely vocal, no passion, never disciplines the players. What concerns me is who can take over???

Prenda - can't lead if you can't play

Stevens - ok but needs to be more accountable

French - need him back badly

Lappin - this guy has had a falling out with someone no question

Houla - is close to Fev but doesn't seem that interested in the other players

Campo - a joke and if this club is serious we have to let him go

Red - is doing the best he can in a game that has passed him by

The Younger Guys:

Bryan - this guy was encouraging players all day - a REAL leader in the making!

Waite - is off the boil big time - SLIPPED OVER ALL DAY!!!!

Walker - was great and will be a good leader for this club

Thornton - there has been a shift in him lately - body language not good

Livo - performs to his best with the talent he has - has a go!

Sorry gang if this is harsh on a few but I was shattered with the performance today. I can accept losses and I'm in this for the long haul but the signs are horrible. These guys do not play as a team. Mark McClure is right when he said in today's age that the culture of this club is under question.

Author:	Pickle [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Leadership
Went to the game today for a close look at our leadership group given the focus this site has had on them recently. Kouta is not interested and is not a leader in terms of communication and body language. His body language was shocking today and just as bad as Fev's. I had the glasses on Kouta for a lot of the play and during the breaks. He is rarely vocal, no passion, never disciplines the players. What concerns me is who can take over??? Prenda - can't lead if you can't play Stevens - ok but needs to be more accountable French - need him back badly Lappin - this guy has had a falling out with someone no question Houla - is close to Fev but doesn't seem that interested in the other players Campo - a joke and if this club is serious we have to let him go Red - is doing the best he can in a game that has passed him by The Younger Guys: Bryan - this guy was encouraging players all day - a REAL leader in the making! Waite - is off the boil big time - SLIPPED OVER ALL DAY!!!! Walker - was great and will be a good leader for this club Thornton - there has been a shift in him lately - body language not good Livo - performs to his best with the talent he has - has a go! Sorry gang if this is harsh on a few but I was shattered with the performance today. I can accept losses and I'm in this for the long haul but the signs are horrible. These guys do not play as a team. Mark McClure is right when he said in today's age that the culture of this club is under question.

Author:	KERMIT [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:
I don't think you are being the slightest bit harsh. From what I saw today you are spot on. At half time we could all see that we were just hanging on but to capitulate like that for the second week in a row is unacceptable. A win was always unlikely but 80 points to an undermanned Saints team that isn't really setting the world alight was a big disappointment.

Author:	SHHH! [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Leadership
Pickle wrote: Went to the game today for a close look at our leadership group given the focus this site has had on them recently. Kouta is not interested and is not a leader in terms of communication and body language. His body language was shocking today and just as bad as Fev's. I had the glasses on Kouta for a lot of the play and during the breaks. He is rarely vocal, no passion, never disciplines the players. What concerns me is who can take over??? Prenda - can't lead if you can't play Stevens - ok but needs to be more accountable French - need him back badly Lappin - this guy has had a falling out with someone no question Houla - is close to Fev but doesn't seem that interested in the other players Campo - a joke and if this club is serious we have to let him go Red - is doing the best he can in a game that has passed him by The Younger Guys: Bryan - this guy was encouraging players all day - a REAL leader in the making! Waite - is off the boil big time - SLIPPED OVER ALL DAY!!!! Walker - was great and will be a good leader for this club Thornton - there has been a shift in him lately - body language not good Livo - performs to his best with the talent he has - has a go! Sorry gang if this is harsh on a few but I was shattered with the performance today. I can accept losses and I'm in this for the long haul but the signs are horrible. These guys do not play as a team. Mark McClure is right when he said in today's age that the culture of this club is under question. Sad to say SELLERS IS RIGHT!!!

Author:	Synbad [ Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:
Do i get some credit now??? Look.. whether Lance Campo and Kouta get the flick wouldnt make an iota of difference because they dont / cant make a difference. Kouta we cant do anything about till next year. the other two should be just shown the door... Campo isnt being paid that kind of money because he is a superstar player.. he is getting paid that kind of money to help the club. He isnt... so piss off Campo!!!!

Author:	Kaptain Kouta [ Mon Jul 11, 2005 12:49 am ]
Post subject:
Leadership? Call me when we catually have some.... This is the bit which tears out my heart....the lack of leadership from our "stars", and the kids have to find their own way.

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Author:	kernafides [ Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:57 am ]
Post subject:	Leadership
I am glad that we are finally gutsy enough to realise that Kouta has had it. He has been a great servant but it is time he realised that he is past it. Contract or not he should retire gracefully as did the great Kerna. He couldn't find a position yesterday, smashed at CHB, smashed at CHF and smashed in the middle (at the expense of AW who had to warm the pine for 20 minutes, bloody disgraceful after the effort he put in during the first half) I can't bare to see him look stupid at the expense of lesser players like Ackland for another year.

Author:	Wild Blue Yonder [ Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:02 am ]
Post subject:
I might be a bit old fashioned and probably say this as a result of playing some hard types up in the Pilbara. But geez, if we get one of their flower giving us grief, can someone smash him and let them know we are on the field. To me that's leadership as well. Throw a bit of weight around (with the necessary constraints of course) but let them at least know we are out there. WE don't even squeeze the life out of their midgets when we wrap them in a tackle or after they take a mark. Leadership, spirit, passion. No one is setting the mark. And if Campo runs in another circle while Whits is leading or with only two against him I'll go fully sick. mate.

Author:	TheGame [ Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:07 am ]
Post subject:
Forgot one leader, the coach.

Author:	Synbad [ Mon Jul 11, 2005 10:48 am ]
Post subject:
TheGame wrote: Forgot one leader, the coach. What would you do if you were Denis? Would you make the big moves? Swing Campo to the HFF. Kouta into a pocket. Play Setanta... Lappo at FF Fevola out to a flank???? Look thats way too simplistic. Its not about moves and i have spoken about this before... Its not even about the game plan... Its about having players who care.... and players who are PROUD to go out there and represent their and our club. The Game where you and i differ is that you go to the footy to support footballers.. You want them well fed, groomed and pampered so they can deliver you 3 extra games of winning footy. I want our blokes to be tough in spirit and mind. Thats the club logo.... If it were 'Strong in Money and Wine' wed be another club. This club has severely shifted from what makes a great club great. You can support your Mantons and Beaumonts and Koutas and Campos but theyre taking you down faster than gravity can. Those days are over.... That is Pagans number one biggest problem. Players and their self importance. Thats why StKilda and Richmons have been shit for so long... each time a coach got tough they ganged up on him... thats what shit cultures does to a club... brings it to its knees.

Author:	TheGame [ Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:14 am ]
Post subject:
As head of the club Pagan sets the tone and at the moment it is a losing one. I admire Wiggins for how hard he works but sadly he is not up to it and never looked like he was going to be. Why didn't Beasy and Hopper get a fair go and then eventually delisted? We desperately need talent, those 2 had it but were not given the chances that Wiggins got, same thing is happening to Norman. What would I do if I was Dennis? Retire and go play with my money, buy some more horses.

Author:	dannyboy [ Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:17 am ]
Post subject:
Yes the clubs flocked after Beasy and Hopper

Author:	TheGame [ Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:18 am ]
Post subject:
You don't think they had talent Dannyboy?

Author:	molsey [ Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:20 am ]
Post subject:
dannyboy wrote: Yes the clubs flocked after Beasy and Hopper Be fair danny, VFL clubs offered Beaser some serious money!

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