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Josh Fraser: The pros and cons
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Author:  camel [ Mon Jun 22, 2026 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  Josh Fraser: The pros and cons
After a 5-zip start everyone else is talking about Josh Fraser being made permanent, so we may as well have a crack too.

Pros
----
Knows the players has relationships he can build on, having returned this year, following a stint from 2016–2020.
Has coached his own teams on a few occasions (Suns reserves, Bullants with and without Carlton connection, Collingwood reserves).
Appears calm under pressure.
We're playing with greater freedom and consistent effort since he took over.*


Cons
----
We've been down the promote the caretaker role before and it didn't work long term.
Is rarely mentioned in the media as likely senior coach.*
Promoting from within will see us miss out out new ideas/knowledge/clean slate that a new voice would bring.


*How much of the improvement since Voss' departure is the pressure release after the incessant media scrutiny stopped? Could he maintain that effort/cohesion long term?

*Does it really matter if Fraser hasn't been a media darling? Steven King wasn't. Craig McRae wasn't.


Personally, I remain firmly in the uncertain/geez I dunno camp.

Initially, I was pretty much in the, yeah, nah, let's not do this again camp. But we have tried pretty much every pathway to senior coaching and none of have been overly successful, so on that basis I'm not sure it's worth ruling Fraser out simply because he's the caretaker.

On face value, Fraser is saying he's not ready yet. Has that always been a protection mechanism, or a way to shield himself from scrutiny? What do we think the internal discussions are? At the moment all we know is that Josh has said he won't be putting his hat in the ring to be our next coach.
Author:  missnaut [ Mon Jun 22, 2026 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Josh Fraser: The pros and cons
I'm also in the uncertain/geez I dunno camp.

He would have had a front row seat to seeing exactly why Voss wasn't working and he's obviously been able to rectify that.
Clubs will start paying closer attention to us though, and let's see how he goes when he starts having to enact Plan B/C/D on match days particularly against the top sides or sides we traditionally struggle against.

I think that's a long winded way of saying ask me in another five weeks, at least.
Author:  Heavs [ Mon Jun 22, 2026 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Josh Fraser: The pros and cons
Pro: Hoodie merch sales will go through the roof
Author:  GreatEx [ Mon Jun 22, 2026 10:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Josh Fraser: The pros and cons
I'm uncertain about the "who", but certain that the "when" should not be until October. I don't care that Essendon* are on the hunt, they are a rabble that will make the wrong decision even if it's not the Jamessiah.

One thing that makes me apprehensive about a Fraser appointment is hearing players talk about how he's simplified the game and (this part may be media extrapolation) giving the players greater autonomy. That kind of thing is good for a temporary lift, but long term you need a detailed game plan that players understand and opponents struggle to break down. It's still a concern that our list struggles with tactical complexity, in addition to the known issues with expectation and pressure.
Author:  GWS [ Mon Jun 22, 2026 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Josh Fraser: The pros and cons
Pretty much agree with every part of every post in this thread so far.

And hoodie sales are important.
Author:  sinbagger [ Mon Jun 22, 2026 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Josh Fraser: The pros and cons
Generally agree with the posters above, it's too early to make the call and one of the most important criteria is how Fraser is able to tactically adjust his approach over the next few years (or even months), because whatever we are doing now will be challenged by other teams, and we will need to course correct at some stage in the next few months or even next season. It's also not clear how much of the current plan or approach originated in him or he's just executing better something that was already in place.

So we need to wait until late in the season, or even the end of the season before we make a decision. Even if we make the finals but lose the first or second final the jury may still be out on his adaptability and suitability.

Only one scenario makes him a sure bet for the position, and that's the one where we don't lose any more matches for the rest of the year.
Author:  Sydney Blue [ Mon Jun 22, 2026 10:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Josh Fraser: The pros and cons
Simple solution - don't appoint coach just keep Josh on as interim coach

But however I suspect this was in the planning before last year when GW brought Josh to the club
A nod and a wink - Vossy gone mid year the job is yours if you want it.

Hansen was the likely candidate to take over when Vossy departed - I think the deal was done before Christmas when Josh was brought to the club.

The next 2 games will be Josh's toughest - we are expected to win
Author:  GWS [ Mon Jun 22, 2026 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Josh Fraser: The pros and cons
Sydney Blue wrote:
Simple solution - don't appoint coach just keep Josh on as interim coach


I actually like the idea but worth remembering this is pretty much what we did with Bolton.

Didn’t really change much in the end.
Author:  17th Premiership [ Mon Jun 22, 2026 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Josh Fraser: The pros and cons
I think it's kind of simple: Include him in the process. Trust that GW/CD know what they're doing.

Coaching becomes very different when other teams have the chance to work you out. That's what happened with the Teague train. And same happened to Voss over the summer of 2023/2024. Over summer, opponents went to work on us. The 'simplified' game plan was no longer sufficient.

Very important for me: It is not just the question the panel will ask about how the candidate will bring implement a modern game plan. It is about how they will adapt and grow and think ahead as the modern game evolves. That is what separates a great coach from a good coach. Chris Scott, Hardwick and Clarkson have shown an ability to win flags with different approaches (and different players). Sam Mitchell looks like he is will be like that too. These coaches are also able to turn no-name players into stars. IMO, Craig Bellamy is the best at this in Australia.

So far, Fraser has done an amazing job. I don't think anyone would have predicted 5-0 to this point, even with the circuit breaker/release the shackles/play the kids effects factored in. However, its a whole new game once the pressure comes, expectations rise, game plans can be analysed, we become a threat for other teams to worry more about (I don't reckon Geelong, for example, approached the game against us in the same way they would have against the Swans or Freo).

Fraser's great start and hopefully positive W/L sheet at the end of the season will contribute to his CV and his approach and demeanour will reflect extremely well on him. But I am putting my faith in GW/CD to get us the absolute best coach from next season. I also wonder whether GW had already identified Fraser as a contender before bringing him back to the club in the off-season??

ONE FINAL INTERESTING PIECE OF INFO: Take it for what it's worth but I heard this from someone who works in the football department at the Pies. They indicated that there are some people at the club who are frustrated with McRae because he is too inflexible in his approach/game plan etc... I'm not 100% sure if this was just about the game plan or about recruiting priorities (players not picks etc...). I'm also not 100% sure if this is just regular employee 'water-cooler-whinging' or more considered or widespread. But at least 2-3 people have been talking amongst themselves about it. Personally, I would take it with a grain of salt BUT I raise it just to suggest that although McRae has taken the Pies to a relatively unexpected flag and was identified by GW, even he is copping some criticism for being inflexible, as was Voss although Voss obviously didn't take us to a flag.... Just a little bit of gossip or maybe slightly more :-).
Author:  Sydney Blue [ Mon Jun 22, 2026 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Josh Fraser: The pros and cons
GWS wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Simple solution - don't appoint coach just keep Josh on as interim coach


I actually like the idea but worth remembering this is pretty much what we did with Bolton.

Didn’t really change much in the end.


I don't think you can compare Josh to the Cliche kid and it is working at Freo
Author:  bondiblue [ Mon Jun 22, 2026 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Josh Fraser: The pros and cons
camel wrote:

... we have tried pretty much every pathway to senior coaching and none of have been overly successful, so on that basis I'm not sure it's worth ruling Fraser out simply because he's the caretaker.


We have. However, the list Pagan, (Bluewave's) Madhouse, Ratten, Bolton, Teague inherited/ built is different to the list Voss and Fraser have inherited/ built. I don't think painting Fraser with the same brush is the right thing to do. Given Fraser came as an understudy of McRae's, he does come to Carlton with fresh ideas from a team who won the flag in 2023.

Quote:
On face value, Fraser is saying he's not ready yet. Has that always been a protection mechanism, or a way to shield himself from scrutiny? What do we think the internal discussions are? At the moment all we know is that Josh has said he won't be putting his hat in the ring to be our next coach


Sydney Blue hit us with a conspiracy theory on Saturday. I have witnesses. Note Theory!

Background:

Collingwood

Graham Wright was the architect of the Collingwood List. He returned to Collingwood in 2021, and the next year, made some HUGE and BOLD decisions.

... to free up the salary cap discarding No 1 ruck Grundy, Philips, Stephensen and idolised coach Nathan Buckley. Got lucky drafting Nick Daicos, and recruited Lipinski (WB) in '21, and traded in Hill (GCS), Frampton (Adel), a bargain, Mitchell (Haw) pick 25, and UFA McStay and the delisted Markov (GCS) from under our nose. Then he "allowed" Buckley to resign following Queens Birthday weekend and selected the unknown, left field Craig McRae.

Carlton

Wright came to Carlton to architect the next phase and made some HUGE and BOLD decisions in his forst 6 months on the job.

....to not renew Docherty's contract, forcing him to retire. He traded out No. 1 KPF Charlie Curnow for 3 first round picks plus Haywood, refused to match offers for TDK and SOS and paid out/ forced out Elijah Holland's 2026 contract. In addition to Haywood (Syd), he traded for Ainsworth (GCS), Florent (Syd), Reidy (Freo) and Chesser (WCE). He paid 2 first round picks to Draft Dean, and drafted Ison and Byrne (who all featured in our last 5 wins), and added delisted Derksen (GWS) and E. Hollands (Carl), and MSD Riley.

Sydney Blue's Theory

Graham Wright cmade the decision to retain Voss, add a new coaching group, and orchestrated the move of Fraser from Collingwood to Carlton with a view to make him Coach in 2027, if Voss saw out his 2026 contract. Voss didnt see out his contract and retired around the Queens Birthday weekend, and Wright by passed the next coach in line, and most senior Assistant in Hansen for Fraser....

There you go.

I'm glad we don't have to rush, nor have been compelled to target obvious "Messiah's" available like Longmire, Hinkley, Buckley or Sinclair, and will go through our thorough process to find our next coach. When that decision will be made is on our terms. WE are watching Wrights impact on Football matters and the List.

The next coach has a senior group who are standing up under new coach, and a group of 20 players under 23yo, and a commitment to Drafting Walker and 3 2nd rounders before the compromised Draft. The flexibility Wright has is amplified by 20 uncontracted players.

2 months ago the question regarding the next Carlton Coach was who would want the job? The question now, in a different tone, is, who wouldn't want the job?

We are expecting the Wright decision to be made. :wink:
Author:  bondiblue [ Mon Jun 22, 2026 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Josh Fraser: The pros and cons
GreatEx wrote:
I'm uncertain about the "who", but certain that the "when" should not be until October. I don't care that Essendon** are on the hunt, they are a rabble that will make the wrong decision even if it's not the Jamessiah.


:lol:

Quote:
One thing that makes me apprehensive about a Fraser appointment is hearing players talk about how he's simplified the game and (this part may be media extrapolation) giving the players greater autonomy. That kind of thing is good for a temporary lift, but long term you need a detailed game plan that players understand and opponents struggle to break down. It's still a concern that our list struggles with tactical complexity, in addition to the known issues with expectation and pressure.


I don't think this is the case GE. I think he's simplified the messaging.

Like players said at the Sponsors night, Vossy's analysis was a paralysis. Too much talk, not enough action.

I think Fraser gets to the point and then leaves the players to execute...with a fresh head.

We will know more after the next 9 weeks. Lets see. I will judge him after the Pies and Saints games. They are musts. If we beat Freo in the last Rnd and its not because they were so far ahead of the pack, they rested a dozen players, well FMD.
Author:  bondiblue [ Mon Jun 22, 2026 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Josh Fraser: The pros and cons
Sydney Blue wrote:
Simple solution - don't appoint coach just keep Josh on as interim coach

But however I suspect this was in the planning before last year when GW brought Josh to the club
A nod and a wink - Vossy gone mid year the job is yours if you want it.

Hansen was the likely candidate to take over when Vossy departed - I think the deal was done before Christmas when Josh was brought to the club.

The next 2 games will be Josh's toughest - we are expected to win


Just read this SB. Thank fk. I quoted you earlier, but after this post.

There. he said it!
Author:  bondiblue [ Mon Jun 22, 2026 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Josh Fraser: The pros and cons
17th Premiership wrote:

ONE FINAL INTERESTING PIECE OF INFO: Take it for what it's worth but I heard this from someone who works in the football department at the Pies. They indicated that there are some people at the club who are frustrated with McRae because he is too inflexible in his approach/game plan etc... I'm not 100% sure if this was just about the game plan or about recruiting priorities (players not picks etc...). I'm also not 100% sure if this is just regular employee 'water-cooler-whinging' or more considered or widespread. But at least 2-3 people have been talking amongst themselves about it. Personally, I would take it with a grain of salt BUT I raise it just to suggest that although McRae has taken the Pies to a relatively unexpected flag and was identified by GW, even he is copping some criticism for being inflexible, as was Voss although Voss obviously didn't take us to a flag.... Just a little bit of gossip or maybe slightly more :-).


Really interesting.

The take away from this is GW made the right decision re coach and List changes. I have complete faith in the little Master.
Author:  Mickstar [ Mon Jun 22, 2026 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Josh Fraser: The pros and cons
Fraser is such a likeable bloke . A genuinely nice bloke . On the other hand all the really great coaches seem to have an edge about them . In fact borderline psychotic . Clarkson , Scott , Hardwick . Even Chris Fagan who comes across as everybody's g
favourite uncle can be a cantankerous prick of the highest order at times . Has Fraser got a mean streak which is almost essential to be asuccessful .
Author:  GreatEx [ Mon Jun 22, 2026 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Josh Fraser: The pros and cons
Quote:
I don't think this is the case GE. I think he's simplified the messaging.

Like players said at the Sponsors night, Vossy's analysis was a paralysis. Too much talk, not enough action.

I think Fraser gets to the point and then leaves the players to execute...with a fresh head.

We will know more after the next 9 weeks. Lets see. I will judge him after the Pies and Saints games. They are musts. If we beat Freo in the last Rnd and its not because they were so far ahead of the pack, they rested a dozen players, well FMD


Yes, I should qualify my statement by pointing out that stuff like Cottrell's (non musical) role at the weekend proves we are not just "going out and having fun". I guess it's more a worry that players see "keeping it simple" is the way forward; they should be up for learning whatever the coach demands of them. Be thankful you don't play NFL where players need to memorise hundreds of set routines. Anyway, I'm probably worrying too much.
Author:  GreatEx [ Mon Jun 22, 2026 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Josh Fraser: The pros and cons
Mickstar wrote:
Fraser is such a likeable bloke . A genuinely nice bloke . On the other hand all the really great coaches seem to have an edge about them . In fact borderline psychotic . Clarkson , Scott , Hardwick . Even Chris Fagan who comes across as everybody's g
favourite uncle can be a cantankerous prick of the highest order at times . Has Fraser got a mean streak which is almost essential to be asuccessful .


Ya know, I did wonder recently whether just being a big tall bastard was part of his skill set. When your shadow looms over people they tend to listen :D
Author:  Sydney Blue [ Mon Jun 22, 2026 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Josh Fraser: The pros and cons
bondiblue wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Simple solution - don't appoint coach just keep Josh on as interim coach

But however I suspect this was in the planning before last year when GW brought Josh to the club
A nod and a wink - Vossy gone mid year the job is yours if you want it.

Hansen was the likely candidate to take over when Vossy departed - I think the deal was done before Christmas when Josh was brought to the club.

The next 2 games will be Josh's toughest - we are expected to win






Just read this SB. Thank fk. I quoted you earlier, but after this post.

There. he said it!



Most conspiracy theory's turn out to be fact :razz:
Author:  bondiblue [ Mon Jun 22, 2026 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Josh Fraser: The pros and cons
Sydney Blue wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Sydney Blue wrote:
Simple solution - don't appoint coach just keep Josh on as interim coach

But however I suspect this was in the planning before last year when GW brought Josh to the club
A nod and a wink - Vossy gone mid year the job is yours if you want it.

Hansen was the likely candidate to take over when Vossy departed - I think the deal was done before Christmas when Josh was brought to the club.

The next 2 games will be Josh's toughest - we are expected to win






Just read this SB. Thank fk. I quoted you earlier, but after this post.

There. he said it!



Most conspiracy theory's turn out to be fact :razz:


I agree

That makes them conspiracies.

GW is football diety: The Oracle.
Author:  Cazzesman [ Mon Jun 22, 2026 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Josh Fraser: The pros and cons
And how is everyone going to take it when the Bombers invite Fraser to come down for an interview? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Regards Cazzesman
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