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Kouta should lead himself out of the club
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Author:  George Harris [ Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Kouta should lead himself out of the club
After his performance against Hawthorn, Kouta shows he is not interested, and maybe just can't physically do it anymore.

He is setting a shithouse example to the team and should retire gracefully at the end of the year.

But why would you forego all those lovely dollars on offer with one year left to run on your contract?

I think Rudy was right 12 months ago.

He doesn't chase, shows no leadership, is not accountable, and just jogs around avoiding contact.

Sorry to say it about someone who was a champion of the club and one of the best players in the league at one point - but that was in the past, and it's time to look at the future.

It's time for the hard decisions.

(Braces himself for the tirade)
Author:  Tractor Boy [ Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:35 am ]
Post subject: 
One more year for Kouta, although there is some logic to your madness.

But for me i'd say Sept 2006 is Kouta's Use By Date.
Author:  Synbad [ Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:41 am ]
Post subject: 
In my opinion he is past his used by date but because he has a contract he stays on for another year.
Shouldnt be captainn next year and should be placed as far away from the centre square/ midfield as possible .
He is a defensive liability.
Author:  The Tyrant [ Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:41 am ]
Post subject: 
I'd leave it to the K-man

but I would like to see him retire... and I would strongly encourage him to retire.....

... but we don't want to tear down too many icons in the one off-season.

Best save the sharpness of the axe for a couple of others.

We WILL need a bit of muscle around the ball next year, in a young team.... he wouldn't be utterly useless for us.

But, yeah... we need a change
Author:  The Shag [ Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:21 am ]
Post subject: 
as i didnt see or listen to the game (at a family reunion) i can only go by stats. 24 disposals and five marks....not bad for someone named at chb....can someone fill me in on the stuff that you have to see to understand this sudden critisism?
Author:  molsey [ Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:23 am ]
Post subject: 
What Synbad said.
Author:  mjonc [ Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:27 am ]
Post subject: 
So if Kouta went to the club and said I am retiring, do we have to pay his contract out seen he is the one breaching it?
Author:  Wojee [ Sun Jul 24, 2005 10:33 am ]
Post subject: 
mjonc wrote:
So if Kouta went to the club and said I am retiring, do we have to pay his contract out seen he is the one breaching it?


That's about right, but more than likely he and the club would come to an arrangement where he doesn't forgo all his salary for next season IMO.
Author:  CS [ Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:02 am ]
Post subject: 
There's no doubt in my mind that he should retire THIS YEAR. He's a champion who should go out remembered as one. If he waits another year he'll be viewed as someone who played on for too long for the bucks

... and we'll all bag the crap out of him on these forums for it.
Author:  Orangewhip [ Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:09 am ]
Post subject: 
Kouta as captain, (and Campo as vice), in 2006, ensures Carlton another crack at the best talent in the land come National Draft day next year.

I don't know how I feel about that but I do feel that at the Blues we have no king. Our king is dead...
Author:  molsey [ Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:11 am ]
Post subject: 
As much of a Carlton champion as he is, and in my mind should have won the Norm in 1995, you'd have to ask the question of why play on?

1. Stable influence around the kids - From all reports he's good with his time with the kids. But he could do that from the stands, no? At training? Perhaps we have some other stable influences through coaches, and perhaps we'll have some different assistant coaches next year?
2. On-field leadership - As much as I love Kouta I really don't think that's the case. That whole discussion when Campo was suspended about Kouta not 'needing to say anything' - well, he really shoudl have.
3. Needed for clearances - Yes, but we're rebuilding and need to find new ways to win the ball. Kouta will not be around at our next tilt at the finals so why hang around?

Its pretty clear contractual obligations are the only real reason for him to play on. It can't be enjoyable for him, and he'll be 33 next year, I think we should be drawing the line, well, he should be drawing the line a la McKay and freeing us up.

From what I understand he's not on the reallly really big bux next year but its still big bux , perhaps enough to lure a Bartel?
Author:  Kaptain Kouta [ Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:13 am ]
Post subject: 
I think if he steps away from the captaincy at the end of the year, in favour of a bold on-field leader (I'm thinking Stevo), who busts a gut for Navy Blue, I think we'll see his play increase substantially. Then he can play his last season for us and leave on a high.

But it needs to be left to him....
Author:  Wolfe [ Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:18 am ]
Post subject: 
IF as expected will be the trades of Campo and Whits ... speculation on if Kouta stays on that will be the last reminants of the Blues dark days..... With Kouta he shouldnt Capatin next year and either be played in the forward line or as some suggest he may even reture with a compromise with the club..

I am certain that if Campo and Whits do go then some of our kids and players like Waite / T-Bird ... even Stevo will step up and take on responability... i do think that they have had some negative influences from our current core leadership and that once that goes if no long term damge has been done we will see some of potential rising talent and kids step up... well i hope they do or we are in more trouble than i thought... Also we need to attract leadershipo types to the club who are not burdoned with the Blues last 3 years will add spark and hopefully ignite the side in a possitive way again :)
Author:  Ponkstar [ Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:50 am ]
Post subject: 
The Shag wrote:
as i didnt see or listen to the game (at a family reunion) i can only go by stats. 24 disposals and five marks....not bad for someone named at chb....can someone fill me in on the stuff that you have to see to understand this sudden critisism?


SHag I don't think anyone questions Kouta's offensive abilities - when he gets the ball it is usually beneficial to the side. But his stats onl;y tell half the story. If there were stats for shirked tackles, pulling out of physical contests, avoiding shepherds, not chasing etc, he would be leading the league in those stats. We just can't afford to allow opposition midfielders that much lattitude.

If he plays on next year he would be a handy forward pocket, in the mould that Hickmott was for us in his final years.

However, as good as Kouta's stats look atm the question is "what is best for the club?"

For me, the answer to that is - to start building a midfield engine fo rthe future - that means much more time in the middle for Walker, Carazzo, Bentick, Simmo, Russell, betts etc etc, and far less time for Kouta, Campo, Lappin et al.
Author:  dannyboy [ Sun Jul 24, 2005 12:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
The problem with Kouta and campo in the midfield is that when they have the ball we are two midfielders short. It kills is. We would be leading by a mile the goals kickewd against us from center clearances because if we don;t get it they run like mad.

Hope he retires. I hate to admit it but I agree with Molsey - Kouta should have won the 95 NS and now he should retire.
Author:  mjonc [ Sun Jul 24, 2005 12:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Kouta is a legend of our club and always will be, but i would like to make the following comparison on leadership.

If Sticks pulled on the Navy blue guernsey and had of played yesterday we would of won. Even if he stood in the goal square all day. Why?

Sticks is a born leader, he makes everyone around walk taller, he provides the example and has that ability to motivate the kids in a way that they would not want to perform badly while Sticks is playing. He would of pulled the group together when we started to lose it in the second quarter, any poor body language would of copped a spray from the big man and any heads down would of recieved the encouragement to play on with confidence.

Kouta has the same awe as a player that Sticks had, but what Kouta lacks though no fault of his own is everything i have just listed about Sticks.

The difference is you cannot mould a Captain, they are skills that you are born with. Brett Thornton shows alot of the qualities of a leader, and one day i belive he will be Captain of Carlton, till then Stevo has my vote.
Author:  Kaptain Kouta [ Sun Jul 24, 2005 12:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well put!
Author:  James Bond [ Sun Jul 24, 2005 12:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ponkstar wrote:
The Shag wrote:
If he plays on next year he would be a handy forward pocket, in the mould that Hickmott was for us in his final years.

However, as good as Kouta's stats look atm the question is "what is best for the club?"

For me, the answer to that is - to start building a midfield engine fo rthe future - that means much more time in the middle for Walker, Carazzo, Bentick, Simmo, Russell, betts etc etc, and far less time for Kouta, Campo, Lappin et al.


I love the Kouta man but tend to agree with Ponkstar. It's time to start rebuilding for the future. Stevo should be next captain.
Author:  BlueMark [ Sun Jul 24, 2005 12:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
Kouta has been a great servant of the club. He has nothing to prove to anybody. when he retires we will be left with glorious memories.

Do I think he should retire at seasons end? Yes, because I would hate to see a great champion become a shadow of his former self.
Author:  budzy [ Sun Jul 24, 2005 1:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
If Kouta plays on he should step down as captain and play as a forward pocket or half forward flank to take a bit of heat of Fev & Fish.
His midfield & KP days are over imo.
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