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Pagan under immense pressure
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Author:  budzy [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Pagan under immense pressure
You can't tell me that almost every Carlton supporter is aware of our predicament and that's it's in the clubs' best interests that we get a PP this year. Imagine the heat Dennis must be under. Copping advice from all fronts...committes, supporters, players. I really feel for him in this current predicament, but I've got no doubt he will do what's in the clubs' best interests and subtly tank the remaining 4 games.
If we somehow win games and miss the PP I'll be dumbfounded.
The suspense is killing me.
Author:  nightcrawler [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah lets just play round 20 this week so we can put three clubs supporters out of their misery.
Author:  mjonc [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
Its what i call a lose/lose situation for Denis.
Author:  thegezman [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
it's really tough. i totally hate this situation.

i cna handle a win, and if we finish higher than the hawks then great.

i wont be that dissapointed that we have picks 2 and 4 rather than 1 and 3.

I hate the idea of tanking and sorely want us to beat the pies. so as a comprimise i'm warming to the idea of us loosing to the power bombers and roos. what i'm worried about though is that we could well beat the dons and power.

i'll be pretty excited come draft time if we have a PP as much as i hate to admitt it the pro tankers are right that this is the best way to go forward.

i just cant get into this wanting to lose bullshit
Author:  James Bond [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pagan under immense pressure
budzy wrote:
You can't tell me that almost every Carlton supporter is aware of our predicament and that's it's in the clubs' best interests that we get a PP this year. Imagine the heat Dennis must be under. Copping advice from all fronts...committes, supporters, players. I really feel for him in this current predicament, but I've got no doubt he will do what's in the clubs' best interests and subtly tank the remaining 4 games.
If we somehow win games and miss the PP I'll be dumbfounded.
The suspense is killing me.


Thats why he's on the big bucks, to make the big decisions :roll:
Author:  Locke [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
[quote]If we somehow win games and miss the PP I'll be dumbfounded.
The suspense is killing me.[/quote

I only want the PP if we "earn it".
I am a person who doesnt like Tanking.

The plus to not getting it is how much fun we are gonna have on this board.
Author:  android [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
As much as I'm not into taking games, we rally could use the extra player that a PP would give us. The AFL socialist system rewards losing, not winning. For us to go forward, we are gonna have to lose. Such an oxymoron this competition is.
Author:  camel [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
thegezman wrote:
it's really tough. i totally hate this situation.

i cna handle a win, and if we finish higher than the hawks then great.

i wont be that dissapointed that we have picks 2 and 4 rather than 1 and 3.

I hate the idea of tanking and sorely want us to beat the pies. so as a comprimise i'm warming to the idea of us loosing to the power bombers and roos. what i'm worried about though is that we could well beat the dons and power.

i'll be pretty excited come draft time if we have a PP as much as i hate to admitt it the pro tankers are right that this is the best way to go forward.

i just cant get into this wanting to lose bullshit


I know exactly what you mean.

I'm just pissed off that the off-season brings us more joy than the footy season. Geez I can't wait for that to turn around. :|
Author:  sticksaftersiren87 [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
Can someone please give me a quick summary of the Western Bulldogs last 2 matches in 2004?

what silence..no one remembers...right...ever heard of a kid called Ryan Griffen?
Author:  Elwood Blues1 [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
I reckon Denis decided a while a go what he was going to do and that he was rebuilding the list and needed real quality which meant early draft picks including a PP. He has said several times he needs quality talent to be competitive and I think his strategies have been obvious...match day coaching doesnt seem important and its more about who will be there next year and he is more focussed on trade/draft time...losses have not phased him at all and he seems relaxed about it......bit like removing a feeding tube from a braindead body....Denis removed himself ages ago and is just letting the body(team list) die a slow death...we have called it tanking...
Author:  Sedat [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
sticksaftersiren87 wrote:
Can someone please give me a quick summary of the Western Bulldogs last 2 matches in 2004?

what silence..no one remembers...right...ever heard of a kid called Ryan Griffen?

We beat North in R21 and lost to Essendon* by 3 goals in R22 (gave them a fright too). Ended up with 5 wins. Welcome to the kennel, Ryan.
Author:  Rhys26 [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
Elwood Blues1 wrote:
I reckon Denis decided a while a go what he was going to do and that he was rebuilding the list and needed real quality which meant early draft picks including a PP. He has said several times he needs quality talent to be competitive and I think his strategies have been obvious...match day coaching doesnt seem important and its more about who will be there next year and he is more focussed on trade/draft time...losses have not phased him at all and he seems relaxed about it......bit like removing a feeding tube from a braindead body....Denis removed himself ages ago and is just letting the body(team list) die a slow death...we have called it tanking...


Gee Elwood - I'm praying that is true.
5 and half wins will make more depressed then Black Friday 2002.
Least this time we are in control
Author:  nightcrawler [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
sticksaftersiren87 wrote:
Can someone please give me a quick summary of the Western Bulldogs last 2 matches in 2004?

what silence..no one remembers...right...ever heard of a kid called Ryan Griffen?


Gee you're testing me Sticks. From memory the Dogs had a solid 30 point win over the Roos in round 21 2004. After a tight first half the Dogs blew the Roos away with 8 goals in the third quarter. Croft did the damage up forward with 5 goals and Cooney starred with 25 odds disposal.

Rd 22 was a bit different with the Bombers slipping out to an early first quarter lead and running out comfortable 17 point winners on the back of 6 goals from Matty Lloyd. The Dogs never really challenged them.

Ryan who? :lol:
Author:  club29 [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
It will be hard for Pagan alright.

He has preaching to players about having pride in the jumper and in their performance an telling them to leave everything they have on the park and then have to pick teams that have the best chance of losing and make decisions that everyone will criticise as bad coaching.

If he is being asked to cheat (losing games we can win in order to get an advantage) by the board then i feel for him even more.

GO BLUES !
Author:  MarkNo3 [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
It would be so much easier if Murphy said hed go father son to Brisbane. Then picks two and four would be more paletable and we wouldnt have the shame of another spoon.

I hate the AFL for this bullshit minimum win rubbish becuase Im quite sure after last week we could belt Port Coll and Ess over the next few weeks and then at least it wouldnt feel so bad.

Ive never though losing for picks should be tolerated but now that the seasons so close to being over and finals are so out of the question its not funny it seems to pointless to waste the season entirely. :(
Author:  AGRO [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
The beauty of Denis Pagan is his strength of character, he knows what he has to do and is working towards it, he wont be distracted by the the theories and opinions of people that dont count (which would be 99.9% of the people on this board, the media, supporters et al. :wink: ).
Author:  mightyblues_luke [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
yeah its a tough call but i dont see denis as being a coach that would just accept a wooden spoon i recken he'll fight to get us above the hawks. but yeah the pp picks might be very appealing to denis after missing out of the ones he was originally promised when he arrived.
Author:  Sydney Blue [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
If Denis Pagan has a belief in his own coaching ability it should not worry him who the draft dishes up to him. Denis should be of the opinion that he has the ability to get the best out of anyone he is given to coach. If he has to rely on finishing last to gain the best 17/18 year old teenager to lift his team out of the mire it is in. Then if I was in that position I would give the game away. It is Denis's responsiblity to mould a side that want to play for each other and win for each other. There is an old saying " A Champion team will always beat a team of Champions" bottoming out and playing for draft picks is searching for a team of champions.

I dont think he will be feeling anymore pressure than he has for the entire season.
Author:  dannyboy [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
utter crap - denis will do what he wants - oif that's play for wins then that's what he'll do regardless of the knee-knocking shitkickers fearful of a long wintery stretch :lol:

mind you Marc Murphy is a far better coach from all reports - he'd get us a few P.P's.
Author:  MarkNo3 [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sydney Blue I agree that a Chamion Team will always beat a team of champs but the AFL has placed us in a predicament where the only way to get potentially the best talent available is to finish last with the smallest amount of wins. With the current financial position of the club we may not survive if we play for pride alone. Sponsors will shun us for lack of tv exposure etc. However by getting the most exciting talent in the country will ensure that the media continue to talk about us and that is something that sponsors want - exposure. The only benefit I see with the current draft system is it forces us to be very careful in how we manage our lists.
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