*sigh*

I've accepted that the system dictates that it is better for us to finish lower down the ladder. And, that in the context of 2005, a wooden spoon is a desireable result for the Carlton Football Club, as absurd as that may sound.

We have had enough discussion on the merits of wanting to lose versus wanting to win. So please, leave those thoughts out of this thread, and just tell me openly, honestly and candidly ... how do you feel?

Over the last couple of weeks I have begun to treat our season as a bit of a joke. I've been making daft comments about Murphy, daft comments about losing and I even implored Robert Walls to get stuck into our remaining opponents to fire them up. But today as the result got tighter, and then inevitable I realised something. I felt nothing. No suspense. No anxiety. No anger. No disappointment.

Nothing.

I'm not angry that we lost. I'm not happy that we're still last. The conflicting emotions are just cancelling each other out. Leaving this supporter with nothing. This isn't what supporting your club should be about. The system simply has to change, and change fast.

Please tell me how the system is making you feel. I don't want to know your thoughts on us "tanking" or not. I just want to know how you feel about what the system is doing to the supporters and their core beliefs. Tell me how the system has affected your weekly expectations when the guys run onto the field each weekend.

Forget abuot the supposed future benefits of us coming last, just get back to basics. Are you happy or sad? Does it not bother you either way? Were you angry that we missed a chance to get off the bottom of the ladder, or are you happy we're still there?

If there is any emotion that I feel, it would be sadness.

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The last month or so, having resigned myself to the understanding that we need to lose in order to improve our list, well... I just haven't bothered going to the games.

I don't want to sit there watching Carlton, half-cheering goals and half-thinking 'shit - I hope the opposition get the next one back'.

So I've been riding this one out at home.

Summary? The system has taken all the pleasure and meaning out of the game for me in the second-half of the season.

I had mixed emotions when we were in front.

I enjoy a win, but the truth is a loss is better for us.

So how do I feel after todays loss.

Happy.

We showed that our kids can play, without jepardising our PP#1.

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#DopeThenStash

This system leaves an empty feeling inside of me too, Liam.

I watched the first half of the game today and was pretty excited, but was then called off to go do some work with my dad. However, I did try and keep in touch with the match via radio. And, like you, as the match got tighter and tighter, I was hoping Port would just go bang, bang, bang and put us away.

And they did.

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to put it simply, my head says yes...but my heart says no...
throughout the games i cant help but feel sadness when the opposition kicks a goal, or we miss a goal....whilst the whole time i know in my mind we will benefit from losing...
the scariest thing is...ive gotten so caught up in the "System" that i found myself feeling that sick feeling that i used to get when carlton lose...but this time i was getting it when hawthorn were losing....i was actually frustrated that they were playing so poorly...

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R A D I C A L B R O T H E R S

Inspired by the One-Minute Sculptures of Erwin Wurm

"All in all is all we are..."

I was going for Carlton.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

I think the crowd answers your question, CB, 16K.

I am happy to see the young blokes developing, whether we win or lose is neither here nor ther for me at the moment. If we do or do not get the PP I will not be upset either way (whatever happens happens), I am just happy that we have a lot of good fundamentals in place now, DP at the helm, have some good kids developing and the club is committed to drafting and developing youth. That is exciting by itself AFAIK.

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16000 were cheering for Carlton to win while a few dozen here want to lose for picks.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

How do I feel? Disappointed, we could and possibly should have won this game.

I went to the game today and I hoped to win the game. I cheered the goals and was frustrated and disappointed that we lost because that's the way I am. I don't think about the draft at the footy, I just worry about Carlton winning the games. Whether we're on 3 wins, 4 wins, 5 wins, 21 wins, I want us to win and I make no apologies for that.

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i think youre under-calculating TG...about 80% of carlton fans know that getting the PP will help us and that losing isnt all that bad....but only 40% of carlton fans are willing to admit it...and 20% of carlton fans are admitedly supporting it

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R A D I C A L B R O T H E R S

Inspired by the One-Minute Sculptures of Erwin Wurm

"All in all is all we are..."

I think it's a disgrace. Today, in the 2nd quarter the crowd really got excited when we hit the front & kicked 4 quick goals. It was really exciting & I don't know about anyone else but I didn't care about the PP - I just wanted to win & get off the bottom of the ladder... But then in the back of our minds we are thinking about the negative impacts this has on the club if we win, it shouldn't be that way. Right now I'm really disappointed that we lost but on the other hand I know that we will get something good out of it a seasons end.

I will always go to every game wanting to win & the sooner the AFL change the stupid system the better...

Where did you get that stat from? Am I mistaken that 16000 fans were cheering wildly when Betts put us in front in the last?

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

Empty , I think is the best word to describe my feelings - Camel you summed it all up so well.

When we were winning i thought gee we must know Murphy is gone to Brisbane , then i thought well hang on we still can't take that chance GO PORT - AND I HATE PORT !!!

The feeling in the gut i used to get when we were pushing for a win has now become the feeling as we push for a loss.

I can't believe losing is better than winning

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*(grow - fun - gah)

Yeah but whatabout your whataboutism.

Well summed up CB. Feel the same.

I´ve stopped going to games as I´ve just lost the passion thanks to a system that encourages supporters to wish their team to lose. I don´t want to barrack for the opposition and I do want us to do well but I know that to recover from the AFL sanctions we need the PP, it´s a ridiculous situation that leaves a supporter passionless and confused.

Even watching today I saw Kouta miss two very easy goals and I just thought: did he do that on purpose? It´s absurd.

I´ve ended up just watching the young kids and getting as much as I can out of watching Simpson, Betts, Bentick, Bryan, Fisher, Waite, etc. develop and gain confidence.

I don't usually post, I'm a lurker, preferring to read other supporters opinions.

I am, however, a member. And barring some major commitment I have gone to every home game for about the last 5 years.

But now, it just doesn't hold the same appeal for me. The system is just so sanitised, I understand that not winning gives us potentially two of the best kids in the land instead of one and that the best way to go forward is to bottom out - but it doesn't mean I can enjoy watching us lose.

So I haven't gone to the last 3-4 home games, I've had other things on, but I just don't feel so complelled to make sure I get there.

Watching us lose is awful, but going to a game knowing that the best thing we can do is lose is just not what I bleed navy blue for.

The system is just so flawed. The best example of this is St Kilda. They are an awesome team at the moment - because they layed down, were not competitive and took spoon after spoon.

This is not what I grew up loving. Something must be done.

Summed it up perfectly CB.

I want to get fired up about a victory (or even possible victory) again!

I am all for us botteming out in order to help restore our list with talented players, full of character, similar to that of our team in its hay day, circa 95.

Any win we have atm is hardly a "win" as it is only prolonging our plight.

Collo made a good statement a few weeks back saying that we dont just want to bulid the club in order to be a minor threat to other teams. The club NEEDS to ensure that the right moves are taken so that down the track when Carlton is playing footy, it is a REAL FORCE and cleaning up other sides like we as Carlton only should be doing.

As I have said before... Carlton must sacrifice greatly in order to achieve greatly. So come the end of the day, giving up a win on the scoreboard is only improving our chances of becoming a better team come beyond this year.

Hang tight people...

It sucks the big one doesn't it.

You know what is worse, a) I never really understood how bad the system was until now and b) that I don't want it to change while we will advantage from it.

Cheap.

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Great thread Camelboy.

Yes the system's totally screwed. Yes it's gotta change. Yes I hate accepting losses to gain an advantage. Yes I despise the money hungry individuals who've [REDACTED] up the culture of this great club & game.

I wanted to win.

I'm pissed that we didn't.

It's the same for me every week. Victory or anger/disappointment.

I do not have the ability to understand those taking joy in losing. I'm simply not capable.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.