TalkingCarlton :: View topic

maybe we can delete this poll and start again?
I almost did the same thing....

Just word it....

Who should go???

Lance.
Fev has higher trade value.

Lance offers more to the forward line in terms of player direction/movement which will be beneficial for setantas development going forward and has better on field leadership. Has also had his first real injury free season (esp preseason) for a few years. Should get better next year (and with the consistency will come the higher trade value IF we decide to go that way). Having said that though, I wouldnt be prepared to pay more than 350k/year for lance.

If however the club only wanted to trade one player and Fev was that player, I would probably be prepared to offer a 1 year, 400k incentive loaded contract for lance - incentive being based on skinfolds, fitness levels and B&F finish.

4thchicken wrote:

I think mobile forwards are the way forward - Lance is not mobile and doesn't show any onfield leadership. Fancy him asking for 400K after his lack of effort the past 4 years (besides his last year, which is the last year on his contract)

Effes wrote:

4thchicken wrote:

400k is incentive loaded - if he can maintain good skinfolds/fitness and finishes top5 in the B&F then he will have had a good year. Which means 2 consecutive good years - which means higher trade value as opposed to this year. If he doesnt achieve everything in the contract he would end up a fair way below 400k (ie 250-300k).

If people wants to get rid of Fevola, u might as well Get rid of them all, Close the Club and lets go find ourseleves another Club to barrack for...

We have one of the best potential players in the league who is the only one who can kick 50+ goals and nails them.... he Can turn a game so quickly and win it off his boots, YET Carlton supporters Are quick to jump on someone and demand for their sacking... why? cuase our pride eats us away everyyyyyyyyy time we are down or losing....

Before people fire shots at Fev, you have got to understand that his case wasnt helped at all this year.... We have had a joke of a midfield who couldnt even make a 10m pass, for them to be delivering the kind of balls a forward needs....

i am not here to make excuses for him, but a fact is a fact... the Guy has been under a Groin injury for most of the second half, he tried as much as he could to drag out the best defenders of every opposition team so others can do something.....

His attitude is a problem and always has been a problem, but its something he can work on.....YOU just dont let go of such rare Talent....

We will never get a Fair Trade for FEV.... we will always end up with a shocking selection that will come to haunt us....history proves that.....

As a Club we need to stop this hypocracy and protect our best players, and i see Fevola as one of them.....

O'halapin isnt going to be half as good as Fevola, and no HE will NOT run the Carlton forward line..... the more i watch him in the VFL, the more i realise he is just not for AFL footy... he needs at least 3 more years before he can carry a forward line and become a match Winner....

CB, is it possible to change my vote since the question has been changed.

4thchicken wrote:

Effes wrote:

4thchicken wrote:

Wont happen.. the club has drawn a line in the sand and wont be bullied by players that have negotiated huge contracts iun the past only to do nothing....

If the club yeilds on this stance.. we deserve everything we get for the next decade.. (it wont be good).. cos it will mean we have NO leadership on or off the field.

Lance HAS to go.. and take his baggage with him....

Then we can make a decision on Fev next year....

The club needs to reinvent itself...

Synbad wrote:

4thchicken wrote:

Effes wrote:

4thchicken wrote:

the line in the sand is movable - as we have seen with Fev's contract earlier in the year. If they were serious about it they should have stuck to their guns (re: 3 year contract). IMHO, for every year we keep Fev, his trade value diminishes as he builds more baggage and gets older- he is less likely to 'mature' and is already at his physical peak (fitness base aside).

My suspicion/hope is that we will sign lance (for around 350k) though it wont happen until very very late in the process.

As an aside, any idea how old hall was when he was traded to sydney? Is Fev already at or past that age?

Author:	Synbad [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Lance or Fevola
Who wpuld you keep....(Next year) Its one or the other.. cant say neither...

Author:	Synbad [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:47 pm ]
Post subject:
Can someone run the poll????

Author:	mikey_m [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:
Keep Fevola. Keep Lappin. Trade Campo and Lance.

Author:	4thchicken [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:
Lance. Fev has higher trade value. Lance offers more to the forward line in terms of player direction/movement which will be beneficial for setantas development going forward and has better on field leadership. Has also had his first real injury free season (esp preseason) for a few years. Should get better next year (and with the consistency will come the higher trade value IF we decide to go that way). Having said that though, I wouldnt be prepared to pay more than 350k/year for lance. If however the club only wanted to trade one player and Fev was that player, I would probably be prepared to offer a 1 year, 400k incentive loaded contract for lance - incentive being based on skinfolds, fitness levels and B&F finish.

Author:	Tractor Boy [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:
Trade lance (this year ) he had a "Great Year " has value is uncontracted, we have the element of fear for him PSD hence he will move this year if deemed the right thing by the club. Walk talk is rubbish... Keep Fev hang him out to dry next season... He makes the transition to being a Clubman /Leader of tomorrow or he gets traded seasons end has no option but to go as the club please. The beauty of this is we are not putting all our eggs in one basket. And we still keep Quality player on the list. Answer Lance... Pity for both individuals but with success comes hard sometimes harsh decisions.

TalkingCarlton http://talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

Lance or Fevola http://talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5213	Page 1 of 3

Author:	marciblue [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:
I selected Lance thinking the poll was "Who do you want the club to trade away?" type question. For the record, I would almost advocate getting rid of both but with the consensus being that next years draft is a super one, I would like to keep Fev for one more year and perhaps put him up for trade next year. I think that he will inevitably continue in his petulant, sulky, immature ways and only frustrate the club and supporters further. I think it is dangerous for the club to cull too many 'senior' players (and I use that term loosely!!!). Draft picks will be more valuable next year so keep something to deal with. In an ideal world, Campo gone, Lance gone and Lappin, well, to achieve his big final contract he might need to go. 3 years is absurd.

Author:	Synbad [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:
maybe we can delete this poll and start again? I almost did the same thing.... Just word it.... Who should go???

Author:	mikey_m [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:
Synbad wrote: maybe we can delete this poll and start again? I almost did the same thing.... Just word it.... Who should go??? To confusing. I voted Fev meaning he is kept. Can the mods clean this poll up a little to be "who is traded"?

Author:	stretford blue [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:
Bye Fev.

Author:	Effes [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:
4thchicken wrote: Lance. Fev has higher trade value. Lance offers more to the forward line in terms of player direction/movement which will be beneficial for setantas development going forward and has better on field leadership. Has also had his first real injury free season (esp preseason) for a few years. Should get better next year (and with the consistency will come the higher trade value IF we decide to go that way). Having said that though, I wouldnt be prepared to pay more than 350k/year for lance. If however the club only wanted to trade one player and Fev was that player, I would probably be prepared to offer a 1 year, 400k incentive loaded contract for lance - incentive being based on skinfolds, fitness levels and B&F finish. I think mobile forwards are the way forward - Lance is not mobile and doesn't show any onfield leadership. Fancy him asking for 400K after his lack of effort the past 4 years (besides his last year, which is the last year on his contract)

Author:	4thchicken [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:
Effes wrote: 4thchicken wrote: Lance. Fev has higher trade value. Lance offers more to the forward line in terms of player direction/movement which will be beneficial for setantas development going forward and has better on field leadership. Has also had his first real injury free season (esp preseason) for a few years. Should get better next year (and with the consistency will come the higher trade value IF we decide to go that way). Having said that though, I wouldnt be prepared to pay more than 350k/year for lance. If however the club only wanted to trade one player and Fev was that player, I would probably be prepared to offer a 1 year, 400k incentive loaded contract for lance - incentive being based on skinfolds, fitness levels and B&F finish. I think mobile forwards are the way forward - Lance is not mobile and doesn't show any onfield leadership. Fancy him asking for 400K after his lack of effort the past 4 years (besides his last year, which is the last year on his contract) 400k is incentive loaded - if he can maintain good skinfolds/fitness and finishes top5 in the B&F then he will have had a good year. Which means 2 consecutive good years - which means higher trade value as opposed to this year. If he doesnt achieve everything in the contract he would end up a fair way below 400k (ie 250-300k).

Author:	Dodo27 [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:
If people wants to get rid of Fevola, u might as well Get rid of them all, Close the Club and lets go find ourseleves another Club to barrack for... We have one of the best potential players in the league who is the only one who can kick 50+ goals and nails them.... he Can turn a game so quickly and win it off his boots, YET Carlton supporters Are quick to jump on someone and demand for their sacking... why? cuase our pride eats us away everyyyyyyyyy time we are down or losing.... Before people fire shots at Fev, you have got to understand that his case wasnt helped at all this year.... We have had a joke of a midfield who couldnt even make a 10m pass, for them to be delivering the kind of balls a forward needs.... i am not here to make excuses for him, but a fact is a fact... the Guy has been under a Groin injury for most of the second half, he tried as much as he could to drag out the best defenders of every opposition team so others can do something..... His attitude is a problem and always has been a problem, but its something he can work on.....YOU just dont let go of such rare Talent.... We will never get a Fair Trade for FEV.... we will always end up with a shocking selection that will come to haunt us....history proves that..... As a Club we need to stop this hypocracy and protect our best players, and i see Fevola as one of them..... O'halapin isnt going to be half as good as Fevola, and no HE will NOT run the Carlton forward line..... the more i watch him in the VFL, the more i realise he is just not for AFL footy... he needs at least 3 more years before he can carry a forward line and become a match Winner....

Author:	bluechucky [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:
St Kilda traded quality in Lockett, Hall, Everitt for good draft picks, and look where they are now. Bag them to shit if you want. But I'd rather Carlton be in the top 4. St Kilda is the model we should be following. Its proven, its progressive. Piss them both off, but if only one, piss of Lance this year.

Author:	Synbad [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:
4thchicken wrote: Effes wrote: 4thchicken wrote: Lance. Fev has higher trade value. Lance offers more to the forward line in terms of player direction/movement which will be beneficial for setantas development going forward and has better on field leadership. Has also had his first real injury free season (esp preseason) for a few years. Should get better next year (and with the consistency will come the higher trade value IF we decide to go that way). Having said that though, I wouldnt be prepared to pay more than 350k/year for lance. If however the club only wanted to trade one player and Fev was that player, I would probably be prepared to offer a 1 year, 400k incentive loaded contract for lance - incentive being based on skinfolds, fitness levels and B&F finish. I think mobile forwards are the way forward - Lance is not mobile and doesn't show any onfield leadership. Fancy him asking for 400K after his lack of effort the past 4 years (besides his last year, which is the last year on his contract) 400k is incentive loaded - if he can maintain good skinfolds/fitness and finishes top5 in the B&F then he will have had a good year. Which means 2 consecutive good years - which means higher trade value as opposed to this year. If he doesnt achieve everything in the contract he would end up a fair way below 400k (ie 250-300k). Wont happen.. the club has drawn a line in the sand and wont be bullied by players that have negotiated huge contracts iun the past only to do nothing.... If the club yeilds on this stance.. we deserve everything we get for the next decade.. (it wont be good).. cos it will mean we have NO leadership on or off the field. Lance HAS to go.. and take his baggage with him.... Then we can make a decision on Fev next year.... The club needs to reinvent itself...

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Author:	camel [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:
Dodo27 wrote: If people wants to get rid of Fevola, u might as well Get rid of them all, Close the Club and lets go find ourseleves another Club to barrack for... We have one of the best potential players in the league who is the only one who can kick 50+ goals and nails them.... he Can turn a game so quickly and win it off his boots, YET Carlton supporters Are quick to jump on someone and demand for their sacking... why? cuase our pride eats us away everyyyyyyyyy time we are down or losing.... Before people fire shots at Fev, you have got to understand that his case wasnt helped at all this year.... We have had a joke of a midfield who couldnt even make a 10m pass, for them to be delivering the kind of balls a forward needs.... i am not here to make excuses for him, but a fact is a fact... the Guy has been under a Groin injury for most of the second half, he tried as much as he could to drag out the best defenders of every opposition team so others can do something..... His attitude is a problem and always has been a problem, but its something he can work on.....YOU just dont let go of such rare Talent.... We will never get a Fair Trade for FEV.... we will always end up with a shocking selection that will come to haunt us....history proves that..... As a Club we need to stop this hypocracy and protect our best players, and i see Fevola as one of them..... O'halapin isnt going to be half as good as Fevola, and no HE will NOT run the Carlton forward line..... the more i watch him in the VFL, the more i realise he is just not for AFL footy... he needs at least 3 more years before he can carry a forward line and become a match Winner.... You're right. BUT ... if we trade either of these guys I don't think Pagan will allow himself to be dudded by another club.

Author:	Effes [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:
CB, is it possible to change my vote since the question has been changed.

Author:	mikey_m [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:
Effes wrote: CB, is it possible to change my vote since the question has been changed. Yes me to. I voted for Fev to stay. Changing it to be traded means I would vote for Lance now.

Author:	4thchicken [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:
Synbad wrote: 4thchicken wrote: Effes wrote: 4thchicken wrote: Lance. Fev has higher trade value. Lance offers more to the forward line in terms of player direction/movement which will be beneficial for setantas development going forward and has better on field leadership. Has also had his first real injury free season (esp preseason) for a few years. Should get better next year (and with the consistency will come the higher trade value IF we decide to go that way). Having said that though, I wouldnt be prepared to pay more than 350k/year for lance. If however the club only wanted to trade one player and Fev was that player, I would probably be prepared to offer a 1 year, 400k incentive loaded contract for lance - incentive being based on skinfolds, fitness levels and B&F finish. I think mobile forwards are the way forward - Lance is not mobile and doesn't show any onfield leadership. Fancy him asking for 400K after his lack of effort the past 4 years (besides his last year, which is the last year on his contract) 400k is incentive loaded - if he can maintain good skinfolds/fitness and finishes top5 in the B&F then he will have had a good year. Which means 2 consecutive good years - which means higher trade value as opposed to this year. If he doesnt achieve everything in the contract he would end up a fair way below 400k (ie 250-300k). Wont happen.. the club has drawn a line in the sand and wont be bullied by players that have negotiated huge contracts iun the past only to do nothing.... If the club yeilds on this stance.. we deserve everything we get for the next decade.. (it wont be good).. cos it will mean we have NO leadership on or off the field. Lance HAS to go.. and take his baggage with him.... Then we can make a decision on Fev next year.... The club needs to reinvent itself... the line in the sand is movable - as we have seen with Fev's contract earlier in the year. If they were serious about it they should have stuck to their guns (re: 3 year contract). IMHO, for every year we keep Fev, his trade value diminishes as he builds more baggage and gets older- he is less likely to 'mature' and is already at his physical peak (fitness base aside). My suspicion/hope is that we will sign lance (for around 350k) though it wont happen until very very late in the process. As an aside, any idea how old hall was when he was traded to sydney? Is Fev already at or past that age?

Author:	Synbad [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:
Scrub it and begin the poll again..... No point having a poll thats not an accurate refelection of a sample of votes...

Author:	Synbad [ Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:
4thchicken wrote: Synbad wrote: 4thchicken wrote: Effes wrote: 4thchicken wrote: Lance. Fev has higher trade value. Lance offers more to the forward line in terms of player direction/movement which will be beneficial for setantas development going forward and has better on field leadership. Has also had his first real injury free season (esp preseason) for a few years. Should get better next year (and with the consistency will come the higher trade value IF we decide to go that way). Having said that though, I wouldnt be prepared to pay more than 350k/year for lance. If however the club only wanted to trade one player and Fev was that player, I would probably be prepared to offer a 1 year, 400k incentive loaded contract for lance - incentive being based on skinfolds, fitness levels and B&F finish. I think mobile forwards are the way forward - Lance is not mobile and doesn't show any onfield leadership. Fancy him asking for 400K after his lack of effort the past 4 years (besides his last year, which is the last year on his contract) 400k is incentive loaded - if he can maintain good skinfolds/fitness and finishes top5 in the B&F then he will have had a good year. Which means 2 consecutive good years - which means higher trade value as opposed to this year. If he doesnt achieve everything in the contract he would end up a fair way below 400k (ie 250-300k). Wont happen.. the club has drawn a line in the sand and wont be bullied by players that have negotiated huge contracts iun the past only to do nothing.... If the club yeilds on this stance.. we deserve everything we get for the next decade.. (it wont be good).. cos it will mean we have NO leadership on or off the field. Lance HAS to go.. and take his baggage with him.... Then we can make a decision on Fev next year.... The club needs to reinvent itself... the line in the sand is movable - as we have seen with Fev's contract earlier in the year. If they were serious about it they should have stuck to their guns (re: 3 year contract). IMHO, for every year we keep Fev, his trade value diminishes as he builds more baggage and gets older- he is less likely to 'mature' and is already at his physical peak (fitness base aside). My suspicion/hope is that we will sign lance (for around 350k) though it wont happen until very very late in the process. As an aside, any idea how old hall was when he was traded to sydney? Is Fev already at or past that age? Youre suspicion is wrong...... Lance wont stay for 350k.... unless u believe bullistics mail....