Look this may have been discussed in the past ( maybe not ) but anyway here i go.

We all remember that Dark day when our Draft Picks were taken away. We also remember the same day for the fines we incurred. Bottom line, we got caught and we were fixed up, good and proper without any love factor. We were Screwed big time. Oh well

Thats in the past. My question however is this, do we as a group really believe that had we recruited Goddard and Wells plus the other " could of beens".
If we had not penalised where would we be placed on the ladder ? Would we be questioning our leadership group ? Would we still be having these contract disputes over terms and money. Would the players we missed out on really have made a difference, any differnce ?

Some might say we are a Rabble some might disagree but honestly was it bacause of that dark day or was it always coming ??

All i know is we will bounce back and all the pain and suffering we have coped and are going through will only make our Next Flag so much sweeter.

Now hit me with your Opinions !!!! Opinions thats all you have for me

Where would Walker be playing and would he have lived up to the hype ?

Its all about what if's ...So go ahead and speculate tell me we would be Flag Contenders, tell me how wealthy we would be, tell me that we would still be playing home games out of Optus... But be serious and don't waste my time or yours for that matter by telling me our problems. Tell me your truth.

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The way I see it, if we had recruited Wells and Goddard we wouldn't have Stevens and Walker.

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It would have all turned out different. Might not have picked up duds like Bowyer. Would have got another top pick with Walker (Tenace?). A couple of 2nd rounders too.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

i would much rather concentrate on what we can control than what we cant.
We cant do anything about the past now.. but we sure as hell do something about our future not being anything like our past by getting rid of the pigs who have their snouts in the troft.....

Thats how i look at the past...

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I think that we would have been much the same. We wouldn't have needed to pick up as many retreads though, but given that many of them will be gone this year we would have been around the mark.

We would have beaten the Kangaroos a couple more times though. Young Wellsy kicked a goal near the siren to beat us and was BOG in another match this past year I believe.

Very good thread TB but a little to difficult to answer for most. Thus the lack of response. Elliot was on his way out regardless of what happened on black Friday as there were calls for his head even before the the salary cap issues had surfaced.

The problem I see that has occurred as a result of all this is there does not seem to be unity

The club seems divided old and new
The supporters are divided
The players seem divided

Until something happens with in the club to regain this unity it will be very difficult to predict where Carltons future will be.

Would we be any better off if it hadn't of happened- maybe but I doubt it

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Good response SB.

It is a difficult one to answer. pj's theory is possibly right in that netting G&W may have seen us miss with Walker and Stevens.

I still think that the new board would have been shit scared once they saw the true state of our financial affiars, $1M fine or no $1M fine, so I think our off field affiars would probably be where they are no. Ugly, but undergoing some cosmetic surgery in preparation of an emerging ugly duckling.

Our on field woes would probably be about the same too I reckon. I think there weren't many of us who realised how hard our earlier failures to embrace the draft would finally hit once the ilk of Silvagni, Ratten, Bradley et al were gone.

And we probably wouldn't be in line for Marc Murphy either. So Black Friday was really a blessing in disguise.

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No doubt, our list would have looked better with Goddard, Wells and one of Sylvia/McLean/Tenace plus the second rounders.

Most likely we would still have the same deficiencies in defence which are the primary reason as to why we're finishing last. Also, the contracts which are hindering our development would still be an issue.

Saying that, I think the pressure on the current board and coaching set-up would have been much, much greater. They have recently been very eager to cite the financial siutation and penalties as reasons for our poor performance. It's been a very un-Carltonlike season of excuses and whingeing ... it's time we moved on and started making improvements with what we have and what we'll get rather than referring to the past.

Bring on the future!

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In WADA we trust

Wells and Goddard would have made a difference although I'm not sure about Wells long term future at any Vic club...with D Motlop wanting to leave North and the Motlops being great mates of Wells I believe Laidley and co are worried he may want out and back to WA if he isnt happy off the field...Goddard is a promising player who would do better with us than Stkilda IMHO...but its all history and you cant go back..have to concentrate on getting this trade and draft period right.

re: Walker....potential whipping boy if I can integrate some of BM/s thread into this as Walkers name was mentioned....worst thing he did was get BOG first game and the poor kid has come to us in a era of quality top picks ie Judd, Ball, Cooney, Hodge, Deledio etc and he is being judged against the very best and at times unfairly....still doesnt have a position and is athlete learning the game..will take longer , so we need to be patient while he matures...I have no doubt he will make it and become a very good 200 game player...

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The Messiah label hasn't helped ... the expectation heaped on the kid has been ridiculous and I agree that the BOG performance only fuelled it. Not every top 5 pick makes it as a star of the comp and we'll wait and see how he develops before any final judgements. I'm hoping his body shape requires time to develop ... and I'm praying his skills also develop at the same time.

Goddard and Wells would have taken the focus and expectation off him a little and it's not until we consistently keep our top picks and a few come through that this level of expectation will diminish.

IMO young Murphy has made a brave decision to say no to the Lions ... would have been pick 50 instead of pick 1, powerhouse club rather than wooden spooner and definitely would have been given time to develop with a lesser role when finally called upon.

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