Currently on our books we have French as our premier ruckman. We look a lot more competitive when he is on the ground. Not an outstanding ruckman but holds his own and rarely lets quality opposition ruckmen dominate. He looks like he is in good physical shape so we can expect at least another couple of years from him.

As support we had Deluca, Bryan and Prenda share the ruck load albeit with little success. All three in my opinion are not equipped to fulfill the ruck responsibilities. We were continuously thrashed in the ruck when Barnaby was sideliend with injuries. Prenda and Bryan are too short to compete effectively and Deluca has had limited exposure prior to joining Carlton.

In the still developing category we have Setanta his brother Aisake and Daniel Batson with the latter two playing the year in the Bullants 2's and needing to cement time for the Bullant seniors this year if they are to remain on Carlton's list. Setanta is physical and has the upside of been very agile for a big bloke. Would love to see Dempsey spend more time with him rather than Deluca and Bryan.

This leads me to Dylan McClaren who has been enticed to Carlton to fill the void in our rucking stocks. Once again we have managed to pick up the fourth best ruckman at a club. When we picked up Barnaby with our draft pick 18, Primus, Lade and Brogan were rated higher.

Dylan is still relatively young given the fact ruck men mature much later. Judging from the few games I have seen of him in his 40 odd games I cannot see him improving a hell of a lot. He will be a servieable back up.

Despite what it appears to be an abundance of rucking options, we must continue to chase quality ruck talent from the draft and help develop these tall youngsters.

This leads me to the question as to why did we not try to pick up McEntee in the draft and now that he is still available we are showing no interest. This guy is rated as pick no 2 by by Colin Wiseby and by some of the talent scouts at no later than a second round pick. Although he is a latecomer to the game, by all reports he has a good vertical leap and his ruck tapping skills are acknowledged as being first class. His 20 metre sprint was faster than most midfielders, coming in at 2.95 for the 20 metres.

I do not believe we have the rucking department covered. Picking a good ruckman is a hit and miss exercise and the more we have at the club competing for the few senior spots the better.

I would like to hear what you think about our rucking stocks.

McEntee didnt get picked up at all - does that tell you something about Wiseby and your talent scout contacts?

Look, we all know that ruck isn't our strength but look at the list and we have 3 trying to learn the caperat a mature age - Bryan, McLaren and deluca and 2 young guys on the rookie list who may become a ruckman - Zackiie and Batson. Add French and we have 6 ruckman out of 43, that's a very high proportion and I dont think another ruck spot is warranted while we're still trying to fill all holes on the list as we go. This probably is why the Mclaren recruitement makes so much sense, even if he isnt that good he's a competitor and will try to fill a hole for a number of years while batson etc. learn.

Think about season 2008, or 2010, when we should next be a solid team. By then either the 3 mature age guys have made it, or they haven't, and we've had to recruit someone else. I reckon Batson has a good 3-4 years to make an impression and they'll keep him.

The ruck is just one hole on the list and it will take time to fill all these holes. At the moment they've gone to fill the key position holes with a bit more vigour. this will give time to the lesser known players to develop into a ruckman or something else.

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Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

It's pretty simple, if a standout ruckman isn't coming through the system, you can't recruit one. Considering what was available this year, I'm glad we didn't recruit one. The same story pretty much goes for the previous two years as well. Our recruiting of ruck stocks has been dictated by circumstance.

Not sure this is true ... last year there were a number of highly rated ruckmen available throughout the draft ... Messon, Wood, Maric, F De Luca, etc. We chose to go with Russell and Hartlett and add Batson to the rookie list. Brisbane were delighted to get Wood at pick 18 ... and then offloaded McLaren this year to move him up a notch. They were there, we chose to fix other deficiencies on our list.

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In WADA we trust

All project players, no stand outs.

who would u rather have out of French, Lade, Primus and Bogan now? French was the form ruckman of the comp before injury earlier this year. The problem seems to be that Deluca doesnt have much ruckin talent and his postition as a key forward is going to be under pressure from waite, hartlett and eventually JK.

We need players on every line, including ruckmen.

We fixed up (well we hope) our KPP with Kennedy, Bower and Edwards added to Hartlett and Raso from last year. All will take time.

Batson has bulked up, I think he has talent and ruck skills - people need to lay off and give the kid some time to develop, this year included. Aisake is very new to Aussie Rules and needs even longer but these two remain in our future developments as long as they improve. Setanta is a back-up ruckman at this stage but who knows, he may be the next Jimmy Stynes! Again, needs time.

De Luca and Bryan are decent back-ups, McLaren will be better and along with the underrated French we have a decent group coming through. I like Bryan as a pinch hitter in the ruck, playing mainly up forward. I think he is better than De Luca. Prendergast is no ruckman and should not be played there, his best position IMO is across half-forward (preferably for the Bullants!)

No doubt next year in the draft we will try for a top-notch ruck prospect but again he will need time, maybe 2-3-4 years to develop.

Yeah as stated we've got plenty of young ruck talent who are being developed by a very good ruck coach from all reports. No need for any more for the next few years until we get a better look at what we've got I reckon.

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There's so much I could say...

None of our ruckman are the complete package...French is probably the best tap ruckman bit doesnt get much of the footy around the ground, Bryan can get plenty of the footy but is a ruck novice, Deluca is a forward/ruck but his ruckwork his very ordinary and Mclaren while having a good leap and probably more nous than Bryan or Deluca is only 196cm and doesnt get much of the footy either....never seen Batson play a full game so I cant comment ...I guess the main thing is we have a selection to choose from unlike a couple of years ago when we would pinch hit with Hotton, Prenda etc....Prenda actually isnt the worst technique wise its just he isnt big enough...
Maybe with Gary Dempsey coaching we could see some major improvement in our ruckman especially Bryan and Deluca...

Blu944 asked the question..who would we rather have now out of French,Lade or Brogan...either Lade or Brogan...both are competent ruckman who can mark the footy and rest forward especially Lade..Port also won the flag with these two having a fine year.....French would have been playing SANFL....

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

Dukes McLaren only got offloaded after he rejected Brisbanes contract offer. Brisbane preference was to keep McLaren.

I agree Conumdrum. Hope we pick up McEntee first pick in the rookie draft.

It wouldn't surprise me if Prendergast, Deluca, Bryan, Batson and the O'Hailpins are all delisted over the next couple of years. Good/promising at VFL level but I don't expect much from any of these players.

One thing worth taking note of is that this year Sydney had a reasonably ordinary ruck division wth only Ball and Jolly. St Kilda are the same and were probably the best team this year if it weren't for injuries.

Re: Sydney....you forgot Goodes...Ball and Jolly are just average but you add Goodes and its different...Goodes played as follower/ruck rover type in the GF and I thought was one of the reasons why Sydney won....
re : Stkilda..great team apart from their rucks.....Ackland, Blake etc are hackers and you rob the forward line if you lpay Kosi in the ruck and beat him up physically...

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

Under the new rules, French has excelled in the ruck. Lade is a far better forward option, Brogan could barely get a game this year and Primus is now coaching... so i think we're goin ok

Our ruck stocks are low! We have French but besides that we dont have a back up RUCKMAN. DeLuca, Bryan, Setanta, McLaren, Prendergast are relieving players but we cant have all of these players playing at once. If French goes down with an injury we are F*#ked

We should have a project ruckman and i dont know what the plans for Aisake are yet! Does Pagan want him as a ruckman or not. If not we should try to pick up a young emerging ruckman who "could" become a superstar ruckman one day. maybe fabian deluca

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"Dont count the games, make the games count"

Brogan should have got a regular game like Tredrae should have been captain....they had to fit Primus in the team because he was captain...notice when Brogan made waves about leaving he got a game in a real hurry....French is good clubman and trier but IMHO doesnt have Lades or Brogans talent and wont enjoy the extra running under the new rules....Brogan will enjoy the new rules with kickins etc.....dont see Barnaby manning up to well on Brogan, White, goodes etc....

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

French has a good tank. Finished top 10 in the time trial this year. I dont think getting over the ground when he is 100% fit is a worry at all. I think he will play at least 2 more years and likely 3 to 4. He is still improving and has a physical preesence that out other rucks dont have.

The football world heard Dennis Pagan immediately after last years draft suggest that he does not like to draft young teenage ruckman that will take years to develop. He was speaking on 3AW at the time and was answering a question as to why the Blues didn't take a Meeson or a Wood or even a Maric when they were available. There is no point in crying poor about the ruck stocks mid season when you are not prepared to nuture and develop young talent. To be fair to Denis though, when he made those comments he probably thought he had Trent Knobbel all but delivered to Carlton in the PSD, as support and back up to French.

For those that still believe we have the future ruck division covered, think again. Batson played almost all his footy this year for the Bullants Reserves. He is not even close to making it. In fact you can call it now. Unless he improves 300%, he will struggle to hold his spot as a rookie after 2006. As for Aisake, incredible that he has come this far. Still a long long long way off senior football. He improved as the year went on but once again, if you were a betting man, you would suggest the odds are against him. Bryan? Played all his VFL footy at CHF before coming to Carlton. Is not a ruckman and I think we would all agree that to make someone into a ruckman at the age of 23/24 is a long shot at best. I could go on but the truth of the matter is that we have French and hopefully McClaren and that is a short term fix. To move forward, we need to select and then nuture a couple of young up and coming ruckmen. That means having the guts to select them young and then to wait patiently whilst they develop. It's a long term investment and one that I'm not sure the current coach has the patience to see happen. I honestly hope that someone like Setanta can come through for us in this area but once again, I think we are clutching at straws. I'm happy to be proven wrong but Setanta at this stage looks best suited to a forward role. Some recruiting scouts rate McEntee quite highly so unless there is something behind the scenes that we know nothing of, I think we should take the gamble and place him on the rookie list.

Preacher if Denis and co decided to retain Batson on the rookie list surely that means they see something in him?

I think it's safe to say that Denis and his senior coaches have seen very little of Batson in real action, except for Barry Mitchell. I think it's also safe to say that most kids receive at least two years on the rookie list. Only Becker in recent memory has been given the flick after one year. They may see something I'm not seeing but on face value the odds are long for Batson to make it off the rookie list.

Why would we draft McEntee ?
He isnt as good as last years crop.
We overlooked all of last years crop because "they take too long to mature".
In the meantime.. we continue taking a bandaid approach to what is one of the most important positions on the ground.Were going to add McLaren to other duds like Mott and Bryan.
Stabs in the dark.

Our ruck recruitment policy is just another of the 'bet each way ' mentality the club has had.

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