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Leg Speed...lack of it...
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Author:  Elwood Blues1 [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Leg Speed...lack of it...
While I have been happy with this period of recruiting I have some concerns about our lack of leg speed and ball carrying ability.
Players who have some speed are Chambers, Simpson, Bannister, Walker and then you have players like Scotland, Carazzo and Betts and maybe Marc Murphy

To me its a bit thin especially when players like Chambers and Bannister are hardly regulars even though they usually dominate preseason training sprints and running drills etc...
We are really left with Simpson, Walker and Carrazo to do a lot of the running and ball carrying duties...its going to be real tough on these blokes at some of he interstate venues especially with the warmer weather and even at our home venue at Telstra where conditions are usually good.
Tha balance of the list has changed and we are bigger and stronger which I like and have been in favour of but I would have selected another running player in the national draft or PSD and another runner as a rookie.
If Walker or Simpson get injured we are going to look very slow..I know we cant fix all our problems in one or two drafts but I still think you can take a balanced approach and too me we have not done that..
Maybe Mclaren and Flint should have been two smaller runners IMHO...I dont mind McLaren but did we really need another spare parts ruckman and did we need another medium size defender...facts are too that Chambers and Bannister probably wont be on the list after next season....
thats going to make us very slow....and the AFL are making the game quicker by changing the rules....
Author:  slow_mo [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
I can see where you're coming from Elwood in terms of who we recruited in the draft, but I don't think our leg speed is a problem.

I think you just look slow when you don't have the ball.

Our major problem is having players who can go in and get the ball. Once we solve that problem I think the rest will fall into place.

Also, you forget to mention guys like Stevens, Houlihan and even Waite. They're not super quick like Walker but they're definitely not slow, and they do have the ability to run and carry the ball.
Author:  TruBlueBrad [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
Russell would be another with speed.

The list isn't perfect, its a long way from being finished. We've bolstered our KP stocks, have some project ball winners on the list in Bentick, Blackwell, Smith.

Hopefully next year we can look at the speed/ball carrying issue either in the draft or via trade.
Author:  The Tyrant [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
tall kids in this draft

quick ones the next

"process"
Author:  pinnell [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Agree Elwood. Whilst I am happy with the drafting I hope that we haven't made a misjudgement on the balance of out list. We DO need line breakers and ball carriers. We need a speed demon.. One of Laidlaw or Matt White would have been handy at the back end of the draft (before you start, no I haven't seen enough of them to be "qualified")... Maybe, with the advantage of "hindsight", and after knowing that we were going to draft 3 guys over 192cm we didn't need both of Saddington and MacLaren?? Maybe next years draft will help us even up the inbalance..

Just a question for those in the know....why did we committ so early to MacLaren?? What if in the last few days a player slipped through to the PSD due to a break down in their contract negotiations adn we were stuck with MAclaren instead of say...Bartel?? Or that a young player we rated highly (ie White) was still available at then end of the main draft yet we missed out on him because another club (ie Richmond) jumped in beforehand??
Author:  SurreyBlue [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
The Tyrant wrote:
"process"


Are you trying to get me angry?
Author:  The Tyrant [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
SurreyBlue wrote:
The Tyrant wrote:
"process"


Are you trying to get me angry?


"tanking"
Author:  Blue Vain [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
I believe McLaren would have required commitment before he walked into the PSD.
He was offered a contract to stay in Brisbane and would have been crazy to turn his back on that without a firm commitment.
Author:  budzy [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
In my opinion the term “speedâ€
Author:  SurreyBlue [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
The Tyrant wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
The Tyrant wrote:
"process"


Are you trying to get me angry?


"tanking"


:P
Author:  The Tyrant [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
SurreyBlue wrote:
The Tyrant wrote:
SurreyBlue wrote:
The Tyrant wrote:
"process"


Are you trying to get me angry?


"tanking"


:P


if I was really trying I would have written "synbad"

:wink:
Author:  Cazzesman [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Leg Speed...lack of it...
Elwood Blues1 wrote:
While I have been happy with this period of recruiting I have some concerns about our lack of leg speed and ball carrying ability........

We are really left with Simpson, Walker and Carrazo to do a lot of the running and ball carrying duties...its going to be real tough on these blokes at some of he interstate venues especially with the warmer weather and even at our home venue at Telstra where conditions are usually good.

The balance of the list has changed and we are bigger and stronger which I like and have been in favour of but I would have selected another running player in the national draft or PSD and another runner as a rookie.

Maybe Mclaren and Flint should have been two smaller runners IMHO...I don’t mind McLaren but did we really need another spare parts ruckman and did we need another medium size defender...facts are too that Chambers and Bannister probably wont be on the list after next season....thats going to make us very slow....and the AFL are making the game quicker by changing the rules....


Elwood it's about more than just leg speed. You also have to win the ball first. It also comes down to a players character, desire, work rate, versatility and being able to stand the rigors of AFL.

I can't answer any questions regarding McLaren only to say that A) French needed help. Deluca is hopefully going to cause more problems with his mobility as a key marking forward. B) Aisake and Batson are 200+ genuine ruckmen of the future but not in 2006 or even 2007.

Mclaren is a very competitive ruckman who the Lions wanted to keep. He will give you 110% and he will give Frenchy a much needed rest for 10 minutes a quarter at least. French is a superbly fit athlete but he needs his rest as you know. We tried to get Knoble last year but got piped by the Tigers.

Getting onto the selection of Flint and leg speed lets look at what happened in the ND and RD.

With picks 1,4 and 20 CFC tried to select 200+ game players. 2 terrific KP players and a brilliant ball getter/carrier were selected. With pick 36 we got a very mobile, very quick (sub 3 sec 20 metres) leading, marking 17 yr old with a terrific work ethic and great character. Believe me when I say Jake has ALL the right attributes you want in a kid.

So he has the leg speed and mobility to play both tall and short. He played onball in the TAC and did very well at the clearances. He has versatility.

When it came to the RD, those in some sort of contention (in alphabetical order) were Flint, Jackson, Looby, Simpkin, Thomas and White. White was asked to train but he had already committed to the Tigers. Another quickie in Andre Gianfagne was also a chance to train but he went to Melb and later the Tigers for a run.

We had enough 193 types and future ruck prospects so they obviously weren't a priority in the RD.

So White and Thomas went in the PSD. Such is life. Just on White, he has suffered alot of soft tissue injuries this year and missed alot of the season. There may be some questions about physical durability down the track. He is a very finely tuned athlete and sometimes with finely tuned athletes it doesn't take many knocks to put them out of action for awhile.

Jackson at 188cm is a very versatile player. What he lacks in initial leg speed he makes up for in aerobic capacity with a 14.5 beep (top 10% at draft camp.) He has the running ability to play onball or as a tagger. He has the height to be a running winger or annoying forward for the opposition ala Fisher.

He is not quick from a standing start but he never stops moving and therefore often leads players who are quicker than himself to the ball. He reads it very well up field and works damn hard to present an option. His 1%ers are the equal of anyone I have seen this year and he will never die wondering. His efforts in the 2nd 1/2 of the year for the Northern Knights, in the Under 18 champs and the TAC Finals series were terrific. He is very good overhead which also makes him a versatile prospect. What he needs now is size and a running coach (which CFC just happen to have :-) )

Rookie selection is also about impressing those watching and the fact that Jacko was always 1st to arrive and last to leave training didn't go unnoticed. He ran himself ragged in every session.

So we picked Jacko at #1. Simpkin went at #16.

Flint is 189cm and Looby is 186cm. Looby is a wonderful kick but Flint is no slouch in that area and rarely misses a target coming out of defense. Both run hard out of defense and both like a dash carrying the ball. Flint is a better mark overhead and a natural 1 on 1 spoiler. He is probably more versatile overall. Aerobically and speed wise both a fairly neck and neck. Flint impressed more in his time on the track at CFC. Both have good leadership qualities with Flint captaining GP in a few games mid year. Flint tends to show abit more poise under real pressure on the last line of defense.

In terms of outright leg speed here are some comparisons

5 metre - Flint 1.07 White 1.07, Simpkin 1.06
10 metre - Flint 1.79, White 1.76, Simpkin 1.78

If you look at who was picked after 17 there isn't much that really compares with Flint. Nicholls is quick but only 176cm. Gianfagna didn't really impress during the year and isn’t a huge ball winner. The rest IMHO are either 'JUST' a chance to make it are possible Rucks or KP's which we didn't need.

You also have to remember that if you take an interstate rookie you have to pay his moving cost and keep him for 2 years. The 2 year deal is a big call in this day and age.

So can see what you wanted but hopefully this explains how things really went in the end.

Regards Cazzesman
Author:  Synbad [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Great post Mr Cazz.

I think our problems will need to be addressed over a coiuple of drafts and not just one.

I do think we have alot of surplus height ... and we were probably wanting some balance.. but oh well!!!

Hopefully we picked up a couple of guys that can do a job for us going forward.

We have holes all over the park and maybe they can plug one or two.
Author:  steve [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Great wrap up Caz. Angling for another POW are we? ;)
Author:  Mickstar [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Elwood Blues 1
Shit Elwood,its uncanny.I was thinking exactly the same thing myself today.Bloody hell ! Fixed up the height problem and now we got a bloody pace problem.Damn hard for the recruiters to get the mix exactly right.
I think pace,although important,is overated.Doesnt matter how quick you are,ya look slow if ya second to the ball.Same thing if you are chasing tail all day.Anticipation is the key ingredient folks.
But you do have a point as far as leg speed goes Elwood.The only lightning quick bloke we have is Fast Eddie.Bentick,The Waterboy Blackie and Murphy to me are in and unders with not a lot of pace to speak of.All very similar types who will fight it out for the one spot.
But as Hughsie's right hand man Cazzer points out,they are aware of the mini problem and are working on it.But as Cazz points out,it is an ongoing continual process.We may not have the sprinters,but by the sounds of it,these new guys can run all day.
Author:  Stefchook [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the update, Cazzesman. Good to hear that Flint has some toe. In your opinion, is he capable of playing 'small'? Or is he more of an undersized 'tall'?
Author:  7dominator [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Appreciate your input Cazzes..Always a plus!...cheers
Author:  Cazzesman [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Stef his opponents this year have ranged from about 184cm types to 193cm. He did well on all sizes week in week out and is very hard to beat 1 on 1.

He might struggle on super quick smalls but who doesn't. What he is very good at is keeping his feet in the contest and giving solid 2nd and 3rd efforts.

Regards Cazzesman
Author:  phoenix johnson [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Stef his opponents this year have ranged from about 184cm types to 193cm. He did well on all sizes week in week out and is very hard to beat 1 on 1.


Sounds like Leo Barry.
Author:  AGRO [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think we are underestimating some of the speedsters we have available:

- Simpson (will do a lot more ball carrying and line breaking this year)
- Russell (same again)

(thanks Campo :wink: )

- Walker is no slouch and will spend more time this year as a creative player after learning the defensive ropes this year

- Murphy isn't a slow coach by all reports
- Betts can provide that crumbing dash in the forward line - with hopefully a few turns in the mid-field


I don't think we are that under resourced in the "pace" stakes as it were - the real key as has been mentioned is winning the ball first from the clearances - we need to get better here - and not cruel ourselves with poor turnovers which then expose us on the counter attack, any side looks slow chasing.
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