TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Campo and the pen...

I would hazard a guess that the reasons behind a poor quality of football journalism existing at present is due to, to be quite frank, there being much more important things in the world to report on, and quality journalists are drawn to much more meaningful causes.

Football, through money, has been severely devalued.

It's just the time of the year. The premiership has been won, the seasons over and the attention of most supporters has moved onto the various summer sports like Cricket, Soccer and in January Tennis. For the AFL supporters whoâ€™s interest hasn't waned this isn't a time to worry about the bad times of the past, the numerous failures your team suffered, but to concentrate on the positives of the future: Young guns training well, the drafted kids who are all guns or recruited players who single handedly, despite all evidence otherwise, are going to take your team to the next level. Nobody wants to read critical articles filled with negative implications for the future because everyone would rather be living in the illusion that the future is a bright one indeed.

I think forum sites are providing those writers because mainstream is all about money; like Hollywood films, they take no risks.

And yes it was once drivel because once upon a time drivel and dribble meant the same thing. Over time drivel became exculsively to mean inane/senseless writing/speech and dribble to mean that stuff that babies fill their bibs with

but

This meant that drivel no longer held true because the image a person wants to construct is not one of senselessness but, rather, the image of a baby dribbling. So now the word drivel is being dropped (like thousands of words before it that have become too specialized - think panda bear) and dribble is assuming both meanings.

It pisses people off because we are at the transitory stage. Dribble is accurate. Drivel is just dribble is sheep's clothing.

50 years hence the talk of drivel/dribble will be dribble.

Oh and I reckon the paper should give tommi a column, Tryant a column and Mike and Dan (with help from jar jar) - three very different styles that would be great to read. Facts/humour from Ty and Mike and Dan, sheer enjoyment from tommi.

get to work GW and make it happen!

I think forum sites are providing those writers because mainstream is all about money; like Hollywood films, they take no risks.

I agree with your musings GWS. The standard of sports writing is very poor.

You also posed some excellent questions. One of the many things that has annoyed me about this Campo saga, is that in all the articles I've read, the journalist has simply tried to put it down to his relationship with Pagan.

No one has actually had the guts to question the character of Camporeale. After all, this is a guy who is a Vice Captain of a footy club who has publicly cracked the sads and walked out because he's sick of losing. I think that is a much bigger story than a rumoured fall out with the coach.

Probably tied it down to is relationship with the coach probably because it was true. If I couldn't get on with the coach I'd leave too as, for some strange reason, it might just effect my enjoyment of playing. More you think of it the more obvious it probably is. He's not the only one. I'm sure he'll give the Bombers a few years of good value.

jim you know SB? you two should get on fine.

we all need the same devil.

Author:	GWS [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Campo and the pen...
Iâ€™ve been musingâ€¦ Scott Camporealeâ€™s move to Essendon* along with similar moves by other players throughout the years is, although not so uncommon post Barassi, still a big story. When a 200 game player leaves a club under any circumstances itâ€™s a significant moment in the life of the player, his teammates, the club, his new club and the fans of both sides. You might think that when such an event occurs thereâ€™d be a significant amount of scrutiny and yet, as with all such events, all we seem to be drip fed is a steady stream of fluff from the various media which seems to do nothing other than at best simply report the event or at worst provide the sort of fluff youâ€™d expect from a club press release designed to prop up the egos of those involved and leave everyone squeaky clean at the end. The Herald Sun this week ran a story by Scott Gullan â€œCampo out to rekindle the flameâ€

Author:	slow_mo [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:15 pm ]
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I agree with your musings GWS. The standard of sports writing is very poor. You also posed some excellent questions. One of the many things that has annoyed me about this Campo saga, is that in all the articles I've read, the journalist has simply tried to put it down to his relationship with Pagan. No one has actually had the guts to question the character of Camporeale. After all, this is a guy who is a Vice Captain of a footy club who has publicly cracked the sads and walked out because he's sick of losing. I think that is a much bigger story than a rumoured fall out with the coach.

Author:	JackWorrall [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:29 pm ]
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A couple of observations GWS. Firstly, thank you for being one of only two people on this site who understand the word is 'drivel', and not 'dribble'. Secondly, you've hit the nail on the head with your comments. If it wasn't so serious, it would be laughable that the alleged senior football writer in journalism (only by virtue of being employed by the highest circulation daily newspaper in the country), is Mike Sheahan. The man hasn't written an insightful or investigative piece, regardless of context, for many years, if ever. Caroline Wilson is the only reporter who achieves genuine breakthroughs, whereas sensationalist pretenders such as Jon Pierik hear a rumour in a pub and report it as gospel. There's a lot to be told regarding the Camporeale defection. It's a story to expose the realities of the thinking of footballers and their managers.

Author:	verbs [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:36 pm ]
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I would hazard a guess that the reasons behind a poor quality of football journalism existing at present is due to, to be quite frank, there being much more important things in the world to report on, and quality journalists are drawn to much more meaningful causes. Football, through money, has been severely devalued.

Author:	GWS [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:04 pm ]
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verbs wrote: I would hazard a guess that the reasons behind a poor quality of football journalism existing at present is due to, to be quite frank, there being much more important things in the world to report on, and quality journalists are drawn to much more meaningful causes. Football, through money, has been severely devalued. I think there are a number of people who write in online fan forums who write more informative, thoughtful pieces than most or the crap masquerading as journalism. I have no doubt there are many more who are capable and would, if given the chance provide a far more insightful view of the football world than we're currently allowed. Also, I totally agree there are more important issues but considering the amount of sports reporting and the size of the market I can't believe there aren't any decent writers who'd care enough about it to give it a go. Perhaps the best solution would be for the media as a whole to move to a more freelance dominant situation where all sports writers are published based on the quality of the article at hand rather than the fact that they're on the payroll week in week out. There are a large number of journalists and photographers who already do this but a surprising few in the sports pages. The Age sticks big head shots of all the journos next to each column and there seems to be a move within all media to make "stars" of their stable. Somehow that's supposed to make me think they're worth reading but funnily enough it doesn't seem to make any difference to the quality of the article. BTW - apologies to Les Carlyon who is a great writer and should have been included in the original post.

TalkingCarlton http://talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

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Author:	Andain [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:25 pm ]
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It's just the time of the year. The premiership has been won, the seasons over and the attention of most supporters has moved onto the various summer sports like Cricket, Soccer and in January Tennis. For the AFL supporters whoâ€™s interest hasn't waned this isn't a time to worry about the bad times of the past, the numerous failures your team suffered, but to concentrate on the positives of the future: Young guns training well, the drafted kids who are all guns or recruited players who single handedly, despite all evidence otherwise, are going to take your team to the next level. Nobody wants to read critical articles filled with negative implications for the future because everyone would rather be living in the illusion that the future is a bright one indeed.

Author:	GWS [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:
Andain wrote: It's just the time of the year. The premiership has been won, the seasons over and the attention of most supporters has moved onto the various summer sports like Cricket, Soccer and in January Tennis. For the AFL supporters whoâ€™s interest hasn't waned this isn't a time to worry about the bad times of the past, the numerous failures your team suffered, but to concentrate on the positives of the future: Young guns training well, the drafted kids who are all guns or recruited players who single handedly, despite all evidence otherwise, are going to take your team to the next level. Nobody wants to read critical articles filled with negative implications for the future because everyone would rather be living in the illusion that the future is a bright one indeed. Good theory but it's just as shit during the footy season... BTW - I'm not searching for more "critical" writing - just better quality. Martin Flanagan's almost never critical yet he remains at the top of the tree year after year.

Author:	dannyboy [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:57 pm ]
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I think forum sites are providing those writers because mainstream is all about money; like Hollywood films, they take no risks. And yes it was once drivel because once upon a time drivel and dribble meant the same thing. Over time drivel became exculsively to mean inane/senseless writing/speech and dribble to mean that stuff that babies fill their bibs with but This meant that drivel no longer held true because the image a person wants to construct is not one of senselessness but, rather, the image of a baby dribbling. So now the word drivel is being dropped (like thousands of words before it that have become too specialized - think panda bear) and dribble is assuming both meanings. It pisses people off because we are at the transitory stage. Dribble is accurate. Drivel is just dribble is sheep's clothing. 50 years hence the talk of drivel/dribble will be dribble. Oh and I reckon the paper should give tommi a column, Tryant a column and Mike and Dan (with help from jar jar) - three very different styles that would be great to read. Facts/humour from Ty and Mike and Dan, sheer enjoyment from tommi. get to work GW and make it happen!

Author:	Kaptain Kouta [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:00 pm ]
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I'm totally with you on this, GWS. The article about The Cancereale trying to "rekindle the flame" (Give me a bucket) is puff of the worst order. Someone at EFC* probably wrote 99% of that article, and in usual high-quality Murdoch Tabloid style it was just regurgitated. The article is about nothing - a no-one - and makes no argument for having been written, other than justifying some Murdoch Hack's pay packet. There are a few journos who write quality. None are perfect, even the ones I consider best have their off days and write some tripe. But considering the number of journos who would give their proverbial right nut to hang round footy clubs for their job, it's ridiculous that we don't have some sections which make a name for themselves asking the hard questions, doing a Jana Wendt or Virginia Trioli and applying the blowtorch to the belly to coaches and clubs. Fatprick likes to think he does. And given the number of ex-players in the media, and more coming every year - they all have media training while they play so they can be a little more articulate than answering "Yeah, Yeah, nah" to every question asked - there are so many with access to deep into club circles and able to get the lowdown in a way that we'd find interesting.

Author:	JackWorrall [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:02 pm ]
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dannyboy wrote: I think forum sites are providing those writers because mainstream is all about money; like Hollywood films, they take no risks. And yes it was once drivel because once upon a time drivel and dribble meant the same thing. Over time drivel became exculsively to mean inane/senseless writing/speech and dribble to mean that stuff that babies fill their bibs with but This meant that drivel no longer held true because the image a person wants to construct is not one of senselessness but, rather, the image of a baby dribbling. So now the word drivel is being dropped (like thousands of words before it that have become too specialized - think panda bear) and dribble is assuming both meanings. It pisses people off because we are at the transitory stage. Dribble is accurate. Drivel is just dribble is sheep's clothing. 50 years hence the talk of drivel/dribble will be dribble. Oh and I reckon the paper should give tommi a column, Tryant a column and Mike and Dan (with help from jar jar) - three very different styles that would be great to read. Facts/humour from Ty and Mike and Dan, sheer enjoyment from tommi. get to work GW and make it happen! So, there are three of us! As you say, the definition of drivel has become specialised, and has become clear, so when I see 'dribble' in that context it is one of those usages that bugs me. Really, I must get a life.

Author:	verbs [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:09 pm ]
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dannyboy wrote: I think forum sites are providing those writers because mainstream is all about money; like Hollywood films, they take no risks. Precisely, the whole "industry" of AFL is all about catering for the masses.

Author:	dannyboy [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:29 pm ]
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tsk tsk K.K. without that mangling (? ) english would soon turn sour and drip off our lips like latin conjugations off a bored first former. Mix and match, @#$%&! ups and mangalings are what makes this language a ripper for poetry. Stick your haiku up your bonsaii and give me this muddied, cloudy english language any day of the weak! amo amas amat what the @#$%&! is that!!!!! (though sescentai was a good word)

Author:	ballistic blues [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:23 pm ]
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A fall out with Dennis. Words exchanged between Dennis, Campo and French left a sour taste in Dennis mouth

Author:	jim [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:
slow_mo wrote: I agree with your musings GWS. The standard of sports writing is very poor. You also posed some excellent questions. One of the many things that has annoyed me about this Campo saga, is that in all the articles I've read, the journalist has simply tried to put it down to his relationship with Pagan. No one has actually had the guts to question the character of Camporeale. After all, this is a guy who is a Vice Captain of a footy club who has publicly cracked the sads and walked out because he's sick of losing. I think that is a much bigger story than a rumoured fall out with the coach. Probably tied it down to is relationship with the coach probably because it was true. If I couldn't get on with the coach I'd leave too as, for some strange reason, it might just effect my enjoyment of playing. More you think of it the more obvious it probably is. He's not the only one. I'm sure he'll give the Bombers a few years of good value.

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Author:	dannyboy [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 9:42 pm ]
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jim you know SB? you two should get on fine. we all need the same devil.

Author:	SOS [ Sun Dec 18, 2005 6:43 am ]
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jim wrote: Probably tied it down to is relationship with the coach probably because it was true. If I couldn't get on with the coach I'd leave too as, for some strange reason, it might just effect my enjoyment of playing. More you think of it the more obvious it probably is. He's not the only one. I'm sure he'll give the Bombers a few years of good value. See, good journos need to look between the lines rather than swallowing every bit of self-serving nonsense that someone might come up with. So a journo might want to ask why someone who wants to leave a club for reasons other than money would try to negotiate a new contract that will tie him to playing for the coach he allegedly hates for the rest of his playing life. Doesn't make sense does it? Nick Stevens didn't negotiate a new contract with Port - he wanted to come home, so why would he? Derek Kickett didn't even talk to Sheedy, let alone try to negotiate a contract with Essendon* when he was left out of the GF team. Rawlings didn't leave the Hawks to play with his brother at the Roos. He left because the Hawks wouldn't give him a 3 year contract. And Hamill didn't leave for money - Elliott said something nasty to him Maybe a journo might think that the fact that the proposed contract was taken off the table by Carlton and the club's new offer was for less might have made him a bit unhappy. Maybe a little bit sad. But no, he was sad about Pagan right? And then a journo would look at Skinny. The journo would notice that his proposed contract was also taken off the table and replaced by a reduced contract. But after an extensive renegotiation, he signed. And ever since, he has not only been saying he is happy to be back, but he has been smiling all the time as well. The journo would be confused. Doesn't Skinny realise he will play out his career under that nasty man Pagan? Have they sedated him or tricked him into taking Prozacs? See a good journo is required to work out these conundrums.

Author:	The Tyrant [ Sun Dec 18, 2005 7:41 am ]
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its a general dumbing-down of standards of footy media. its immortalisation of the lad (the current or ex player) and the barracker (Eddie), has lead to the average punter not caring about journalism and relating more to their fellow supporter in the media. Could it be also that the rise of the net forum may have made journalists gun-shy? there is a real article about Carlton spurning Camporeale as well... not just "rift with Denis", but Campo is now roundly disliked by a lot of supporters.. and I dare say the majority.... how can a player go from Vice Captain and premiership player to public enemy? However, to write that article they'd need to go to the source... ie, us. Its also totally possible that the Essendon* propaganda machine has them silenced for some reason. Maybe there's a big Essendon* story on the way?? Perhaps Sheedy is swapping his pink pills for yellow ones? Possible also that they believe the public have just turned off footy and only want puff pieces.

Author:	TheSheik [ Sun Dec 18, 2005 7:45 am ]
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Just wait, the middle of next week there'll be a Camporeale article appear in the press asking all of the hard questions GWS posed. Journo's scan all of the footy forums looking for a story or a theme that they can expand upon. No doubt one of them will jump on this idea !!

Author:	jim [ Sun Dec 18, 2005 8:25 am ]
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dannyboy wrote: jim you know SB? you two should get on fine. we all need the same devil. I know well the way journos operate but in this case I don't see any other reason why Campo would want to leave so late in his career. I don't delve into every mysterious, non-existent drummed-up explanation like you guys simply because you're all pissed off. If you guys were in the same circumstances you'd leave too, as you would if you couldn't get on with the boss at work.