Like every one else, I am a frustrated Carlton supporter.
I've lived and loved the great times as a loyal Blues supporter.
Not being at the 'pointy end' of the ladder at present over the last few years has been disappointing.

However, I am a massive fan of the development that is taking place in our playing stocks at the moment.
I honestly believe that we are seeing the development of a juggernaut once again down at Carlton.
I see a potent future forward line consisting of Fevola, Kennedy, Waite and Fisher.
Our midfield stocks of Stevens, Murphy, Bentick, Carrazzo, Walker and Russell are improving as a unit by the week, and the more they play together, the better they will be, both individually and collectively.
I believe that Hartlett, Bower and Thornton will develop into great defenders for the Blues for years to come.
I also believe that in players such as Betts, McLaren, Setanta & Aisake, Jackson, Edwards, Raso we have a further core of players that will develop into strong players into the future, or at least worth persisting with to force the overall ability of our team upwards.

I've likely left a few players out, but you at least understand where I am coming from.

All that aside, given we are still developing, we will lose a whole lot more games than we will win, and right now we are absolutely justified in being clear favourites to win the wooden spoon.

There are noises about Denis not lasting beyond Round 12, but I'm not sure that's the answer. Even if he has 'lost the players' as many are claiming, does this mean all 42?? Or is it a select few? If it is a select few, and there not in the lists above, then in my opinion, keep Denis at the helm of the ongoing resurgence.

He was employed to do a job. It was never going to be an overnight fix. I thought we were closer after the last 6 rounds of 2004 and the Wizard Cup of 2005, but poor financial decisions, trading and recruiting set us too far back from between 1996 and 2002. I think we are on the right tram, and I'm happy for Denis to be the conductor.

If however, the situation behind close doors is as dire as it seems and our players egos are so precious and Denis was to be shown the door, where do we go? Favourite son in Kernhan without any experience. Bring Ron Barassi out of retirement at 70 years of age. Barry Mitchell? Where is the next coach? Gary O'Donnell?

Rather than pipedreaming, I think we need someone within the bowels of our player group to stand up and be a genuine leader, cure us of any (if any) infighting, focus on the task at hand - of developing a team capable of weathering the difficult times, as well as remaining focussed on seeing a premiershp cup into the hands of a Carlton captain and coach (hopefully one D. Pagan).

In the meantime, I'll focus on the now. Our team of 42 players, coach Pagan & co., Wayne Hughes, Collo and the board.

My Christmas list includes a ruckman and a further swag of good draft choices ready and eager to steer the big Navy Blue boat toward premiership victory, while all the Sally Robbinses get tossed overboard along the way.

Go Blues

Deenis! is that you?

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

The skies are blue for us ... but... we better make sure that we can do anything in our power for the kids to continue taking steps and not to stagnate .

None of these kids have actually taken that step from potential to star)let)!!!!

Thats a worry...!!!

Something is wrong...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Like you I am disappointed as to were our great club is now....my children last year couldnt believe we won the wizard cup as they had become accustomed to us losing all the time....and as for you and me we use to take winning for granted not so long ago....I want to see us turn it around as I think we have a core of players that you can build a side around for the future but unfortunatley at this present moment we are going backwards and that cant be a good thing for our young players and someboy has to be sacrificied and it has to be the coach...I have mentioned on the postings tonight but after finishing arguing with my brothers tonight I cant keep quiet anymore...in the famous words of big brother it's time to go............................



PAGAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!and by the way take ELSHAUGH and MITCHELL with you...

Its time to bring back some past champions, like the ratss,maccas,sexton,braddles,hickmonts....we cant go any worse!!!!

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#sayerscouldbetheman!!

I'm not worried about what they are producing now but I am worried they could follow in the same path as Sporn, Livo and Wiggins who were talented juniors also. Livo did have health problems but all of them were made defensive players straight away.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

azzablue are you disappointed?

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

emotionally and phsically as to where our club is heading

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#sayerscouldbetheman!!

Gray skies are gonna clear up
Put on a happy face
Brush off the clouds and cheer up
Put on a happy face...
So, spread sunshine all over the place,
And put on a happy face

i wouldnt get rid of Mitchell.. i think Mitchell is AFL coach material...
Id certainly get rid of Elshaugh.


If things dont improve... perosonally id be trying to negotiate a settlement around mid year with Denis. ..Elshaugh would go too.

Then id appoint Mitchell caretaker coach with Libba and Daniher assistants with maybe Ratten and a couple of others that can come in for a hand.

the next thing i would do is have a chat with voss about how much longer he can play AFL at the hiighest level... well he didnt play two in a row.. i dont think he will play beyond the end of next season.

When hes done i would pull out all stops to get him to the club with a year as an assistant.

Then he becomes the clubs face and coach.

If were really struggling.. / and by struggling i dont mean losing.. but how were losing!!!... thats what i would do.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Barrel, I like your optimism, but you are dreaming. We are a rabble at the moment and there is no guarantee that any of those players will make it. OK maybe Murph. The Blue-skies belong to the Tigers, Bulldogs and Hawks - not us I am afraid.

If Pagan has lost the players then this is the 3rd or 4th time since he has been at the club. That is just simply not good enough. He has had his time and he now needs to be big enough and step aside "for the good of the club". He has failed dismally.

As bad as people say that Brittain was as a coach at least we didn't have to put up with these shellackings. At least we had hope. At least we had the excuse that we had a lot of injuries.

What is Pagan's excuse?

And don't anyone say that Pagan was robbed of key draft picks. While this is true, I can't see Goddard and Wells making the difference in our side at the moment. The problems are deeper than that.

AHHH finally some sense! Even though everybody wants to brag brittain...Lets look at the facts...Even PARKIN admitted that brittain had a huge impact in '99 and then in 2000 if memory serves me correct we won 13 in row gain britain in and kouta leading the bronlow until that knee. then the turning point in my opinion and we have never recovered. In 2001 carl v Geel in the wet the last home and away game...Ratts goes down,slivangi goes down...porter goes down and then kouta does his knoee again in the finals against richmond. Brittain never had the faith of the board lead by big jack and was never was allowed to rebuild under big jack amd he was made the scapegoat..because at the end of 2001 he lost silvangi, ratten was never the same again and kouta. that is huge...Some can everybody stop making excuses about the pagan and face the facts his time is up and its unfortuante he will remain with the club because we cant afford to pay him out> what has our club come to...

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#sayerscouldbetheman!!

So it's blue skies ahead for Carlton

Yes it is, at times, along with some clouds, rain and probably some wind. To just forecast blue skies is an unrealistic weather pattern.

I'm in no hurry to apply sunscreen

Hi new member.
Can i just add that i believe it would not hurt us at all to have either of these two as a senior couch.
MITCH:Is a man that demand and gets the respect of his playing groupand has them acually playing for him(alaq Roos).
TD:He has couched under Sheeds,Malthouse and even Thomas,who is not proven but is a great people manager.

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CATCH YA's (dazzler)

After having read this forum over the week-end I feel the need to make a point in regard to “reality checkâ€

I see Blue Skies.

The game plan for 2006?

Nobody can see what the game plan is with the start of the season just 4 weeks away. Perhaps the experimenting is coming to a close over the next week or so and things will settle, for the coach, assistants and players. If so, and I truly hope it will, then this is when Blue Skies may start to take shape for 2006.

There's 42 players trying to win a position in the first 22, and when each individual takes the field and find themselves in a one on one situation, they own the moment! The coach and assistants can't help that one player, and it's the responsibility of that player to show a never say die attitude and win that battle for the Navy Blue jumper, and then the next and so on....

The players must take much of the responsibility on the field.

I believe there is some depth in talent today that we can work with. As a humbled Carlton supporter, I have taken great interest in the rebuilding process over the last few years. (haven't had other choices) But like you I don't want to be doing this for the next 5 years let alone 10. If I could see this happening to me, then I will say bring out the axe! The season hasn't started so I am not in a position to say this, but I respect the judgement of those that do.

Hopefully over the next couple of weeks, we can see players settle in a position, and start to be acquainted with the team mates who will be around them for the season. For success to happen, they'll need to in a hurry.

It has been mentioned before, but lets wait for 4-6 rounds into the season before we belittle everyone including the orange boy. When frustration takes hold, common sense and calmness takes a back seat. This is what I'm reading...with empathy...but I enjoy the passion, and feel the pain of your/ our frustration.

Look at what we have got, and not at what we haven't got. If Pagan etc is not the answer, they will not be there forever...and time will tell (when? we'll know by mid season for sure if the players are playing for the coach or not).

The glass is half full.

We've got 'great' senior players Kouta, Stevens, Lappin, Fevola, French, and Whitnall. (6)

We've got 'good' senior players in Houlihan, French and maybe Saddington (3)

We've got up and coming young players who have shown 'great signs' and can stand up in Waite, Thornton, Fisher, Simpson, Walker, Carazzo, Bentick and O'hAlpin (8)

We've got promising new kids with talent in Murphy, Kennedy, Blackwell, Russell, Hartlett , Bower and Betts (7)

and there's a good chance we will have 1-2 Rookies progress further in O'hAlpin and Jackson (2).

I'm sure of the above 26 players listed we are the Baby Blue. But even if we take away our unrealistic high expectations of 6 of the 7 new kids, theres definetely 18 capable of contributing on the field to do the well for us in 2006; that we can all agree on.

And if 2 middle tier players can step up, such as, Bannister, Scotland, McLaren, DeLuca, Bryan, Teague, McGrath, Livingston, Prendergast, Sporn, Wiggins and Longmuir 2006 has potential to be a satisfying season

The point is, I see Blue Skies, and Dennis can't say that he has nothing at his disposal to make something good of 2006. From the abovementioned list he has to come up with workable 'game plan' over the next few weeks, and make it happen. That's his job, not mine.

THE EMPIRE WILL STRIKE BACK!!

mikkey.. yourte kidding yourself if you dont believe even the Epping under 16s cant have a game plan thats obvious after 3.1/2 years.

To dismiss that the coach is unable to get his message across to his team is silly when you look at how many times weve been done by over 70 points in that time.
the players look confused!!!..
The kids are not stepping up!!!
There are rumblings of discontent.!!!
The kids dont look like theyre enjoying themselves as a matter of fact theyre looking jaded and theyre going backwards.

A smart man.. would realise that its pretty close to the end now...

You cant turn that around i.. the horse has bolted now!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I don't think the "game plan" is the same today as it was 3,5 years ago. The list is completely different and the game plan has to adapt to the players you have.

I think it is still too early to say "the horse has bolted" and reserve my judgement until we are half way through this season. I also think there is no "magical bullet". Managing a football team is a little more complex then that. I think the recovery will take a long time no matter who the coach is. My focus is that we should try to help to ensure the club does not fold or is relocated (the biggest current risk IMHO).

What we all can do is to a) encourage everybody to buy a membership b) participate in the "process" i.e. attend the AGM and join the discussion plus communicate with the club and board members. c) be constructive when critisising - i.e. don't burn memberships and spit at officals but make a contribution (like some of the regulars here do - including Sinners).

Mikkey, thanks for your words of wisdom.

I agree with all your points and points of reference. Legacy of past mistakes....no doubt.

I think the 'circuir breaker' is what many contributors are looking for when referring to Dennis and assistants.

Walls quoted 5-10 years in 2003...so in today's terms that means 2-7 years left before we see success. I can see it happening in 2, as other lists grow old, tired, disgruntled and/or avoiding breaches in salary cap (can't hold onto all their good young players).

THE EMPIRE WILL STRIKE BACK!