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| New Playing Style from Pagan http://talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9162 |
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| Author: | sticksaftersiren87 [ Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | New Playing Style from Pagan |
Great win by the boys on Sunday. It was very unusal to see us breaking even/winning most positions on the ground. Made for an easier day for denis and the boys in the coaches box no doubt. Most interesting thing to me was the adoption of a more possession style game, most notably in the back half. Last year defenders on the goal line/kicking in would have kicked long to a contest at half-back and, more often than not, seen the ball come back over their heads for a goal. On Sunday, the boys where determined to kick short to the open player in the back half, rarely kicking to a contest. This has a two fold effect of denying the opposition the ball, while only kicking to a contest in the fwd half where a turnover is less dangerous. Take out livingston, the rest of the boys of the backline are amongst our best short kicks (thornton, whitnall, lappin, walker) and no doubt are the base around which this new style is built. Even Dennis has realised that the game has changed and we have to move with the times. Good coaching, well executed by the boys. |
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| Author: | TheGame [ Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:33 am ] |
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The more time you have the ball, the less time they have it. There will be teething problems but at least we're on the same page as the rest of the teams now. There will be short kick turn overs that will look horrible but that's part of it. It's better having the occasional error than kicking the ball long and it being a 50/50 chance to come back. |
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| Author: | Kouta [ Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:37 am ] |
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It's only round 1 and early but is Pagan's paddock finished? I haven't seen it mentioned on here but we broke the club's record for marks and disposals for a team coached by Denis. Crazy Stats 361 disposals – most by a Denis Pagan-coached team 142 marks – fifth most in AFL history and a club record Or is he waiting for Josh Kennedy to debut. 
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| Author: | bluechucky [ Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:47 am ] |
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There was one bit of play were the forwards were out of the 50 and the ball was kicked into the open goal line for Waite to run onto and kick a goal. From memory, there were a few occassions where the forwad 50 was empty, so I'd say the paddock is still alive and kicking.... barely. |
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| Author: | TheGame [ Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:50 am ] |
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The paddock was still alive especially early but we brought the ball around the wing patiently when we didn't have a clean break. Previously we would have went long way too early where Melbourne would have all the numbers back. |
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| Author: | ScottSaunders [ Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:23 am ] |
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yep. i said it in another post as well. its the "modern" way football is played. myself i dont like it, but thats irrelevant, it is the way the game is played now and the first time i can recall that we actually played the "modern gameplan" and it worked for us. i give pagan a serve from time to time for his lack of "adapting" to the "modern game" but have to give credit where it was due, if it was his instruction to play the way we did - then good coaching. but i do also agree with his statement about us putting on size, in the past we have probably tried to do what we did on sunday night, i.e. the physicallity with respect to the tackling and pressure, but it is only now that the lads have the body size to back it up. a very very positive result for the club, a win in freo and then a massive turn out for round 3 is what the club needs desperately for a good sudden increase of memberships for our first home game. |
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| Author: | WTTF [ Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:25 am ] |
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This style of play appears to be the several teams' first real attempt to try something radical to beat the flood. It's kind of like, well OK if you want to flood we'll just kick the ball amoungst ourselves out here at half back for a while, until you come out to get us. When they eventually come out of the back half and the flooding eases, you attack then. Almost like a battle of wills.......who will cave in first and change their tactic. This type of play requires a lot of patience and skill from the side with the ball. |
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| Author: | Dukes [ Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:27 am ] |
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Definitely a new style of plan ... and it worked. We're still not good enough to win the contested situations regularly, so we've adapted accordingly. It mightn't the most 'pure' form of football but I'll take it over losing any day. Also, our better physical apperance translated into less coughing up of the ball. We forced more ball-ups by holding onto the ball rather than spilling it into open space when tackled. Good signs! |
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| Author: | 2ndeffort [ Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:55 am ] |
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WTTF wrote: This style of play appears to be the several teams' first real attempt to try something radical to beat the flood.
It's kind of like, well OK if you want to flood we'll just kick the ball amoungst ourselves out here at half back for a while, until you come out to get us. When they eventually come out of the back half and the flooding eases, you attack then. Almost like a battle of wills.......who will cave in first and change their tactic. This type of play requires a lot of patience and skill from the side with the ball. I read it that we would flood, get the numbers back and stifle the Melbourne attack and then break and flood forward to the 'Paddock' where we had 1 or 2 key forwards waiting. If we turned it over, rather than just flood back aimlessley and set up the zones like robots, the players seemed to put in an extra effort to pressure the Melb ball carriers. This meant that their renowned running players, used to breaking the lines and kicking over the zones and defensive set-ups, or to delivering pinpoint passes to unstoppable leads, were being monstered by Fevola, Betts and Waite just as they were releasing the ball. This meant cr@p delivery into the Melb forward line which, instead of going straight down Robbo or Nietz's throat, fell right into the middle of one of our defensive zones. How about the time when White took the hanger, played on, looked up, all the zones were covered, hesitated and, before he could look for another option.....bang, monstered and a turnover. On the other hand, when Melbourne turned it over, our running was superb, Simmo, Walker, Scotland and Stevens had the ball moving very fast and we were getting the ball back into the paddock before the flood could get back and cover the zones. Simmo running away from guys and kicking over the top of the CHB wall also helps!!! The difference in our execution was that generally I thought our skills were better (kicking for goal still a worry) than seasons past, work rate , commitment and effort was up 400% and our defensive pressure all over the ground was the best I've seen from a Carlton side for maybe 6 years. Fevola running down Pickett in the centre of the ground was testament to this!!! Eddie Betts must have caused about 5 turnovers through sheer force of will and effort!!! I also thought the guys looked very fit. I thought they looked much more athletic than they have in the past. maybe this is the bigger bodies Dennis was talking about but there were 1 or 2 tackles that we stuck on Sunday that we wouldnt have stuck last season. Most forced turnovers. How many players did we run down?? The work rate was awesome and if they can keep doing that (big ask!!!) then they will be a difficult proposition for every team this year!! |
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| Author: | woof [ Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:58 am ] |
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I reckon Denis hates the fact that football has evolved into a keepings off mentality. I reckon it would be really hard for him to accept that his team has to play that game style to be a chance of winning games. I must say I was really pleased with our win but less pleased with the game as a spectacle. The game on Sunday was similar to a game of netball for 80% of the game. |
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| Author: | strangeblue [ Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:59 am ] |
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Don't particularly enjoy the 'modern' style of footy - the hawks/dockers game was a shocker to watch - but i do enjoy a win... Also thought that sunday was the first time in a few years that we didn't look slow. Didn't get pushed around and didn't get blown away by pace - very exciting... |
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| Author: | Molly [ Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:04 pm ] |
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I've only managed to watch a replay of the last quarter (I'm watching the good stuff first!)- but to me the big difference was the fact our guys were able to bounce out of tackles. A great example is Carrazzo in the final few minutes - a couple of Melbourne guys tried to takle him, and he not only held onto the ball, but bounced out of the tackles, evaded them, and then dished off a good pass. There were a few other lads, including Walker who were able to do the same thing. Seems to back up Pagan's statement that we are now physically able to be in the contest. It makes you realise that a lot of the lads actually do require a few seasons in the system in order to really make it. I'm now looking forward to big seasons from Hartlett and Russell, NEXT year! |
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| Author: | Koutamagic [ Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:58 pm ] |
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I thought it was a well coached game. the game plan has definitely changed and you can tell dempsey and mclaren has definitely added value to the ruck and relieved French of his usual workload. this has translated into more precise hits out of the middle which is telling. I like the style of game we are currently playing. and watching adelaide last night slow down when the pies when they were rampant with 'tempo' football was very interesting and effective. Not sexy, but extremely effective. |
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| Author: | CarltonClem [ Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Koutamagic wrote: I thought it was a well coached game. the game plan has definitely changed and you can tell dempsey and mclaren has definitely added value to the ruck and relieved French of his usual workload. this has translated into more precise hits out of the middle which is telling.
I like the style of game we are currently playing. and watching adelaide last night slow down when the pies when they were rampant with 'tempo' football was very interesting and effective. Not sexy, but extremely effective. I'm sure Campo wishes he was back at Carlton to get his stats up with all these cheap kicks 
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| Author: | Mickstar [ Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Gameplan |
Been critical of the one dimensional ,inflexible style of Denis.It has been to watch criminal at times.But i gotta tell you,the tactical nous of Denis on sunday was sensational.Why the dramatic change after three years ? thank christ he has let go of the 90's and got into the new century.SEE ! you can teach an old dog new tricks.Ya never too old to learn,and i for one am rapt that Denis has shaken off the past and got with the present.All credit to him.For mine,it was by a country mile Denis's finest coaching performance since he has been at the club. |
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| Author: | Tractor Boy [ Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Just something i 'd like to offer as "Food For Thought" The modern game we are talking about is the possesion game with short kicks paddocks flooding etc etc. Will be very interesting to see how teams go against the Bulldogs this season the way they play...and this modern game. In five years time will we be talking about the "New modern Game "the style the Bulldogs are playing today? I think so...and then i'll not only love watching the Blues but i'll also enjoy watching "footy " again ( other games when we're not involved - even though at times i still do, just not religiously like when i was a kid still in school uniform, oh the glory days, but thats another story. ) |
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| Author: | Ponkstar [ Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Perhaps Denis was reverting to the Brittain game plan just for Kouta in his 250th..... Seriously it ain't champagne footy but possessions = confidence for the young kids. They need to learn to have confidence in each other etc. And it was great seeing the young fellas getting the ball and kicking it to the other young fellas - bringing each other into the game. Too often in the past few years I have seen the likes of Kouta, Campo, Whitnall, Lappin etc just kick it to each other and not bring the young kids into the game. |
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| Author: | scottopee [ Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Mmm I've been told for 3 years our game plans fine its all been the players fault 
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| Author: | blueman [ Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
This is heresay, but interesting. My mate at work is mates with Libba. plays tennis with him when he can on Thursdays. Says that Pagan offered his resignation late in 2005 because of the gulf between his style and the players and problems between other coaching staff and players. Carlton Heirarchy rejected this offer - seems like there have been quite deep problems at Carlton in the area of player/coach communication, too much 'my way or the highway' stuff. I would see this new game plan as a sign that Denis is re inventing himself. According to my mate, Denis blamed himself for all the issues.. |
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| Author: | Synbad [ Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:37 pm ] |
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The coach saved his assistants by blaming the players. Now they have all but admitted they were wrong. But im glad they were big enough to change.... Youd hope there is belief in the new style tho |
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