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 Post subject: Key Defenders
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:51 am 
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Bruce Comben

Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:16 am
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On white line fever last week a Melbourne supporter called in and asked Terry Wallace if he knew why Melbourne didn't draft any key defenders as this is their obvious weakness. Terry's reply was that there is a shortage of top line defenders coming through the underage system as nearly all the top players are playing forward or in the midfield. He also stated that Richmond and numerous other clubs were in the same boat, and are therefore trying to develop key defenders from within.

This got me thinking about the Blues managing to draft the All Australian Centre Half Back and the reportedly best key defender in last years draft with pick #20. Add to this Bower's running capacity and he appears to be the proto-type of the modern footballer. Now while it is way too early to start crowing about his selection, you could not argue with the logic applied, especially given the hit and miss nature of picks outside the top dozen or so.

If he works out it will leave a lot of opposition supporters scratching their heads as to why they took flanker/pocket types over a well credentialed key defender in a period when they are in such short supply. If he doesn't work out as a key defender he may still make it as a flanker or worst case scenario become one of a long list of second rounders that weren't quite good enough to make it in the bigtime. A well calculated punt in my book.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:02 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:00 am
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We can only hope. I think Drum would have been the preferred defender of the 2005 crop however.

It has been reported that Bower has the jitters a tad at the moment which is natural for most young blokes. Sadly, for some it is their undoing in the long-run. The club needs to take good care of Paul. I wonder if he'll go along for the trip this weekend?


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 Post subject: Re: Key Defenders
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 12:07 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:51 am
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born in 72 wrote:
On white line fever last week a Melbourne supporter called in and asked Terry Wallace if he knew why Melbourne didn't draft any key defenders as this is their obvious weakness. Terry's reply was that there is a shortage of top line defenders coming through the underage system as nearly all the top players are playing forward or in the midfield. He also stated that Richmond and numerous other clubs were in the same boat, and are therefore trying to develop key defenders from within.

This got me thinking about the Blues managing to draft the All Australian Centre Half Back and the reportedly best key defender in last years draft with pick #20. Add to this Bower's running capacity and he appears to be the proto-type of the modern footballer. Now while it is way too early to start crowing about his selection, you could not argue with the logic applied, especially given the hit and miss nature of picks outside the top dozen or so.

If he works out it will leave a lot of opposition supporters scratching their heads as to why they took flanker/pocket types over a well credentialed key defender in a period when they are in such short supply. If he doesn't work out as a key defender he may still make it as a flanker or worst case scenario become one of a long list of second rounders that weren't quite good enough to make it in the bigtime. A well calculated punt in my book.


We got Saddington for pick 52 as well :shock:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:40 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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The reasoning is because Bower hasn't proven himself as a true CHB. He basically spent games peeling off as an option or to mark uncontested and use his pace and agility to carry the ball down to the forwards.

This aspect of his game (lack of contested work) though improving, is his biggest flaw along with his decision making by foot. So essentially we're developing him as a true defender also. The upside is once he has that part of his game down pat (and it isn't that hard as it's an issue of many up and coming players) we have a bloke who can read the flight and clear the ball out ala Chad Cornes.

You can see some shots of him and Russell working on contested ground ball work with Libba in Headplant's recent training shots album, Bower worked Russell into the ground (as you'd expect) but it was a great showing by both players.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:04 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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I was having a chat with a couple of recruiters from other clubs on the weekend. They said finding Key defenders, that will play 150+ games, is one of their main challenges each draft.

They spoke about Max Hudghton and how several clubs passed on him because he was only 191cm and considered not overly creative. He plays game 175 this weekend and should easily make 200 by careers end. He hasn't been beaten to many times in the past 174 games.

As Weaver over on BF suggests, most of the AFL KP defenders will eventually come from the kids who were talented forwards in the Under 18 comps. I think he is right as on the whole, the more talented kids tend to play forward more often than not and the dour 'Stoppers' are used down back. There are of course exceptions but not alot.

Drum, Bower and Wayde Mills were the only consistant KP defenders picked in the top 30 last draft. The career of the Pies John Anthony at pick 37 will be one to watch as he has abit of spirit about him.

From the likes of Bower, Edwards and Flint there is a decent chance we could have the next Hudghton in 2 or 3 years. In the mean time, hopefully Saddington can slot in and take up the slack.

Regards Cazzesman

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:15 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Cazzesman wrote:
... has abit of spirit about him.
Regards Cazzesman



"Spiwit, bwavado, a touch of dewing doo."

:lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:24 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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jimmae wrote:
The reasoning is because Bower hasn't proven himself as a true CHB. He basically spent games peeling off as an option or to mark uncontested and use his pace and agility to carry the ball down to the forwards.

This aspect of his game (lack of contested work) though improving, is his biggest flaw along with his decision making by foot. So essentially we're developing him as a true defender also. The upside is once he has that part of his game down pat (and it isn't that hard as it's an issue of many up and coming players) we have a bloke who can read the flight and clear the ball out ala Chad Cornes.


Jimmae I think you have undervalued Pauls efforts as a natural close checking defender. He might be seen as a dasher who zones off but that is not necessarily the case. certainly his agility and mobility gives him the option to run but he has know problems competing 1 on 1 as well.

I checked my notes from last years U18 Champs and had the following written...

Game 1 vs VM. Played on Rees Thomas in 1st ½ then Dowler in 2nd ½. Controlled both fairly well after conceding 1 gl to Thomas in the opening minutes was able to keep his slate clean. Plays tight and appears to read the ball well in the air. Abit of a dasher. Brave running back with the flight of the ball a few times. Kept Dowler very quiet in the 2nd half.

Game 2 vs SA. Played CHB vs Cleve Hughes. Hughes got away a few times when Bower zoned off early but Bower tighten up after ¼ time. He hit back with strong run out of the backline later in the game. Punches fairly well. Hughes kicked 1 gl. Solid game

Game 3 vs VC. Played CHB vs Hansen/Fraser/Hansen. Rarely beaten in the air and has excellent balance and recovery. Kept Hansen quiet and Fraser without a touch. Very lively and bouncy style of game. Punches well and was seen to dive full length to smoother the ball off a boot.

Overall: Made AA. Rarely beaten when he plays close.


I think those few words with Mitchell a couple of weeks back may have given people the wrong impression. Yes he likes to run and create, which is terrific, but he can certainly play close and is hard to beat in a contest due to his athleticism, much like McPhee of the Bombers. I agree his decision making by foot needs alot of work.

Regards Cazzesman

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:25 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Cazzesman wrote:
I was having a chat with a couple of recruiters from other clubs on the weekend. They said finding Key defenders, that will play 150+ games, is one of their main challenges each draft.

They spoke about Max Hudghton and how several clubs passed on him because he was only 191cm and considered not overly creative. He plays game 175 this weekend and should easily make 200 by careers end. He hasn't been beaten to many times in the past 174 games.

As Weaver over on BF suggests, most of the AFL KP defenders will eventually come from the kids who were talented forwards in the Under 18 comps. I think he is right as on the whole, the more talented kids tend to play forward more often than not and the dour 'Stoppers' are used down back. There are of course exceptions but not alot.

Drum, Bower and Wayde Mills were the only consistant KP defenders picked in the top 30 last draft. The career of the Pies John Anthony at pick 37 will be one to watch as he has abit of spirit about him.

From the likes of Bower, Edwards and Flint there is a decent chance we could have the next Hudghton in 2 or 3 years. In the mean time, hopefully Saddington can slot in and take up the slack.

Regards Cazzesman

Matt Maguire went 6 picks later than Hudghton and after the pick we gave up for McKernan. :(


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:29 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9198&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:28 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:13 pm
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Cazzesman wrote:
As Weaver over on BF suggests, most of the AFL KP defenders will eventually come from the kids who were talented forwards in the Under 18 comps. I think he is right as on the whole, the more talented kids tend to play forward more often than not and the dour 'Stoppers' are used down back. There are of course exceptions but not alot.


Regards Cazzesman


Interesting comment Cazzes.I would suggest that some things never change.

I grew up with Gordon Collis as a hero.Started off as a half-forward,moved back and immediately made an impact.A Brownlow by a mile in 1964.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:35 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Using Hudghton as a yard stick shows how hard it's getting Cazz. :P

I wasn't referring to his ability to contest leading forwards. That's a huge attribute of his and is mainly due to his athleticism.

My thoughts are how will he be with the power forwards, who make him stop prop and get in a real physical contest. Another thing is that our defensive unit at times tries to play like they have a much higher quality line up supporting them, and unfortunately this isn't the case. Bower has a natural instinct to attack at the ball and this will reward him and the team in some instances but I feel he lacks a bit of discipline to hold down a key defensive post (whether that be tall or small) just yet.

This isn't constructed from that spray post either, I'm pulling from a whole bunch of sources, pre and post draft. I like him, I reckon he will be a quality KPP/Utility for sure given time, but I was just explaining (albeit in a roundabout way) why it's so hard to draft a defender from the draft.

It's been summed up a bit better since. :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:36 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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Cazzesman wrote:
I agree his (Bower) decision making by foot needs alot of work.

Regards Cazzesman

That will surely improve with time & experience. He seemingly has all the ingredients to be a top defender. I'm very much looking forward to PB and Flint slotting into our defence. :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:00 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Cazzesman wrote:
As Weaver over on BF suggests, most of the AFL KP defenders will eventually come from the kids who were talented forwards in the Under 18 comps. Regards Cazzesman




Absolutely, just look at Luke Livingstone he was the next best key forward available in the 2000 Draft after Nick Reiwoldt and Justin Kositchke - he is developing into a fine key defender. :P

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:11 pm 
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John Nicholls

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IIRC Brian Harris played up forward at Under 18 level and is now a key defender for the Bulldogs.

Leo Barry played on the wing.

Darren Gaspar played in the midfield.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:40 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Fev played as a forward before making his name as defender! 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:41 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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JuzzCarlton wrote:
Fev played as a forward before making his name as defender! 8)


POW !! :-D :-D :-D

Just for value !

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