TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Blues ordered Pagan to recruit youth 'too late'

CARLTON'S new president Graham Smorgon yesterday revealed that coach Denis Pagan had been ordered at the end of last season to adopt a youth policy and to adapt his coaching style to a less aggressive managerial model.

the Blues would never again play an AFL game at Princes Park, regardless of whether the AFL took over the stadium's lease;

a new director to fill the vacancy left by Collins, preferably a former player, would be appointed within a fortnight;

The way I read that article is that they 100% blame Pagan for the teams performance.

He has been instructed to let his assistants have a more hands on role

He has been instructed to change his approach

He has been instructed to devleop a youth policy and stick to it

Pagan is becomming the new Parkin - Stand back old feller and let this young blokes show you how its done

Hooray Hooray for Smorgan- It is about bloody time

Sydney Blue wrote:

You must be a) a Pagan hater and b) thick if you belive this BS. Smorgon is trying to shift blame on to Pagan through the media. Very poor form. If you believe that Pagan would prefer a recycling policy instead of youth rebuilding one and the Board had to "instruct" him - well then you belive anything.

Well they would have had to rubbest stamp Pagans policy wouldt they???

The outlining of their plan in the media is good but the fingerpointing is bad.
It means look at me im good.. and look at him hes bad...(except he wasnt the one that made that decison )

Of course it would.

The board would rubber stamp the trades ..

No ifs no buts...

Shifting all of the blame to Pagan is cowardly.

Synbad wrote:

Of course it would.

The board would rubber stamp the trades ..

No ifs no buts...

Shifting all of the blame to Pagan is cowardly.

So Pagan didn't have a say in Morrell- Teague and Martyn .????

The bloke has had his wings clipped and good on them for doing it

Sydney Blue wrote:

Synbad wrote:

Of course it would.

The board would rubber stamp the trades ..

No ifs no buts...

Shifting all of the blame to Pagan is cowardly.

So Pagan didn't have a say in Morrell- Teague and Martyn .????

The bloke has had his wings clipped and good on them for doing it

For the last time each trade and tactic would be rubber stamped by the board.
The board would have to rubber stamp Pagans decision to go a certain way...

What dont you understand????

thats why there are boards... :roll:

It doesnt mean the individual players are rubber stamped in particular...it means the direction is.
Will i have to repeat it again???

People are reading far too much into that article. All it says to me is that the club told Pagan to tank after the Richmond win last year, but that in hindsight, they wish they told him to do it at from the end of the 2003 season.

Essentially, Smorgon is from the Synbad school of thought. No offence Synbad, but your thoughts on what the 2004 season did to our progress are well known.

Author:	Effes [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:38 am ]
Post subject:	Blues ordered Pagan to recruit youth 'too late'
Blues ordered Pagan to recruit youth 'too late' Quote: CARLTON'S new president Graham Smorgon yesterday revealed that coach Denis Pagan had been ordered at the end of last season to adopt a youth policy and to adapt his coaching style to a less aggressive managerial model. Quote: the Blues would never again play an AFL game at Princes Park, regardless of whether the AFL took over the stadium's lease; Quote: a new director to fill the vacancy left by Collins, preferably a former player, would be appointed within a fortnight;

Author:	Barnesy [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:21 am ]
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Right, Wrong or indifferent, at least Smorgan is making statements and perceptually we are hearing and seeing a vision / mission.

Author:	mikkey [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:33 am ]
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On the positive side it seems clear that Smorgon has a media strategy to ensure we get back in control with what is "out there" and improve relationships with the media. This is a wise move and important in improving image and Brand. The negative is that he is washing dirty laundry in public. Claiming that the Board directed Pagan's recruiting and management style undermines Pagans position. Poor form and not entirely believable. The "recycling" policy was probably signed off by the board to stop the bleeding in light of the lack of draft picks over 2 years. I can not see any coach who would not opt for a youth policy if the Board supports them in it. You can't tell me that Pagan had to be told - I think it was the Board who was finally convinced they had to change strategy. It has been quite clear from "inside" words on this forum over the last couple of years that the Board was focussed on short term fixes for survival. This smells like the Board / Smorgon is trying to blame Pagan for the onfield issues and wash their hands. Poor form IMO.

Author:	Sydney Blue [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:43 am ]
Post subject:
The way I read that article is that they 100% blame Pagan for the teams performance. He has been instructed to let his assistants have a more hands on role He has been instructed to change his approach He has been instructed to devleop a youth policy and stick to it Pagan is becomming the new Parkin - Stand back old feller and let this young blokes show you how its done Hooray Hooray for Smorgan- It is about bloody time

Author:	mikkey [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:47 am ]
Post subject:
Sydney Blue wrote: The way I read that article is that they 100% blame Pagan for the teams performance. He has been instructed to let his assistants have a more hands on role He has been instructed to change his approach He has been instructed to devleop a youth policy and stick to it Pagan is becomming the new Parkin - Stand back old feller and let this young blokes show you how its done Hooray Hooray for Smorgan- It is about bloody time You must be a) a Pagan hater and b) thick if you belive this BS. Smorgon is trying to shift blame on to Pagan through the media. Very poor form. If you believe that Pagan would prefer a recycling policy instead of youth rebuilding one and the Board had to "instruct" him - well then you belive anything.

TalkingCarlton http://talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

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Author:	Sydney Blue [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:53 am ]
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mikkey wrote: Sydney Blue wrote: The way I read that article is that they 100% blame Pagan for the teams performance. He has been instructed to let his assistants have a more hands on role He has been instructed to change his approach He has been instructed to devleop a youth policy and stick to it Pagan is becomming the new Parkin - Stand back old feller and let this young blokes show you how its done Hooray Hooray for Smorgan- It is about bloody time You must be a) a Pagan hater and b) thick if you belive this BS. Smorgon is trying to shift blame on to Pagan through the media. Very poor form. If you believe that Pagan would prefer a recycling policy instead of youth rebuilding one and the Board had to "instruct" him - well then you belive anything. Well Mikkey you must be even thicker read it again Smorgon said that ordering Pagan to stick to a youth policy had probably come two years too late. Chief executive Michael Malouf also confirmed that Pagan's new deal involved a "significant paycut". Smorgon said that while Pagan fought successfully to retain all of his assistant coaches, he was told in return to hand over more responsibility to those assistants and to rebuild the club by blooding young players "or the club will die". "We gave Denis very clear guidelines that we have to rebuild this club or the club will die," Smorgon said. "We had to adopt a youth policy and we probably should have done so earlier. We inherited (the coach) in a sense but we did re-sign him for another three-year term. "My experience with Denis is he's very good with young players. He's changed his style to a more managerial hands-off role empowering his assistant coaches to do more, which has been effective." Now come on you tell me what these comments from the President mean I know who the thick one is

Author:	TruBlueBrad [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:54 am ]
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They've finally given Pagan a couple of decent assistants, even if in a part time basis. Maybe they'll cull a couple of the mosquito fleet at the end of the season and bring in a couple of younger guys fresh out of the game.

Author:	Synbad [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 8:59 am ]
Post subject:
Well they would have had to rubbest stamp Pagans policy wouldt they??? The outlining of their plan in the media is good but the fingerpointing is bad. It means look at me im good.. and look at him hes bad...(except he wasnt the one that made that decison )

Author:	Sydney Blue [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:04 am ]
Post subject:
Synbad wrote: Well they would have had to rubbest stamp Pagans policy wouldt they??? The outlining of their plan in the media is good but the fingerpointing is bad. It means look at me im good.. and look at him hes bad...(except he wasnt the one that made that decison ) Would they??? Or did Pagans first contract mean that he had complete control of the Football and recruiting departments- Who know what Elliott would have offered

Author:	Molly [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:05 am ]
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This article made me sick to the pit of my stomach. What on earth does Smorgon think he has to gain by bringing all of this out in the public eye? Maybe he makes the Board look good, but he's trashed the coach in the process. He's also denigrated by association some of the players who aren't a part of this 'youth policy'. I just don't see what dragging Pagan into this in such a public light is going to achieve. To me it shows a man who is trying to pump up his own tyres very quickly, but he's acting more like a bull in a china shop and causing plenty of collateral damage. I don't have a problem with the Board telling Pagan what to do (they employ him after all), but there is a confidentiality issue in the way the Board deals with the coaching staff, and it should never be breached in public such as this. Pagan has been made to look a fool. When do I get the chance to vote this guy out again?

Author:	Synbad [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:06 am ]
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Of course it would. The board would rubber stamp the trades .. No ifs no buts... Shifting all of the blame to Pagan is cowardly.

Author:	camel [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:09 am ]
Post subject:
Synbad wrote: Well they would have had to rubbest stamp Pagans policy wouldt they??? The outlining of their plan in the media is good but the fingerpointing is bad. It means look at me im good.. and look at him hes bad...(except he wasnt the one that made that decison ) Agreed. There's a lot of mixed messages getting out there. Hopefully we'll win a game of footy tonight and shift the focus off the board and onto the field.

Author:	Sydney Blue [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:09 am ]
Post subject:
Synbad wrote: Of course it would. The board would rubber stamp the trades .. No ifs no buts... Shifting all of the blame to Pagan is cowardly. So Pagan didn't have a say in Morrell- Teague and Martyn .???? The bloke has had his wings clipped and good on them for doing it

Author:	Hegarty [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:12 am ]
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This bloke is a disgrace.His first act as president is to publicly undermine the coach who has a contract till the end of 2008 by bagging his recruiting philosophy and his player management style.Doesn't get much more fundamental than that! Did he object to the re- signing of the coach.He might as well tell us that as well. For what purpose has he come out with this??So he can claim some of the glory if we come good.What a turd!

Author:	Synbad [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:23 am ]
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None of todays claims in the paper were smorgon initiatives except hanging it on the coach. I think Diggins is hung though.... excellent job to stick that in the paper whoever did it... But with some of them they dont contribute... they just chew off the fat. So for someone who does bugger all on the board the number Kennedy gets is a big deal. Blaming the coach for a direction of the footy club took now that Murphy is doing great is weak. Its purely rhetoric. Murphy great... Kennedy expectation... older players not cutting it .. lets go that line.. now... (but previously it wasnt our fault) Its what people want to hear isnt it??? Id spew if i was Pagan....

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Author:	Synbad [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:13 am ]
Post subject:
Sydney Blue wrote: Synbad wrote: Of course it would. The board would rubber stamp the trades .. No ifs no buts... Shifting all of the blame to Pagan is cowardly. So Pagan didn't have a say in Morrell- Teague and Martyn .???? The bloke has had his wings clipped and good on them for doing it For the last time each trade and tactic would be rubber stamped by the board. The board would have to rubber stamp Pagans decision to go a certain way... What dont you understand???? thats why there are boards... It doesnt mean the individual players are rubber stamped in particular...it means the direction is. Will i have to repeat it again???

Author:	mikkey [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:16 am ]
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So SB - Smorgon said so so it is absolutely true? It was in the paper so it must be true? We all know that the Board was in a dire position after the 02 and 03 season and was looking for short term gain. Don't tell me they did not ask Pago to ensure that we improved in 04. Without picks he had no choice but to go out and get the best recycables available. This did help in 04 but came back to bite us in 05. Don't believe Smorgos spin. He is trying to wash his hands to look good. This man knows how to play politics.

Author:	Sydney Blue [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:22 am ]
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Synbad wrote: Sydney Blue wrote: Synbad wrote: Of course it would. The board would rubber stamp the trades .. No ifs no buts... Shifting all of the blame to Pagan is cowardly. So Pagan didn't have a say in Morrell- Teague and Martyn .???? The bloke has had his wings clipped and good on them for doing it For the last time each trade and tactic would be rubber stamped by the board. The board would have to rubber stamp Pagans decision to go a certain way... What dont you understand???? thats why there are boards... It doesnt mean the individual players are rubber stamped in particular...it means the direction is. Will i have to repeat it again??? The rubber stamping would have been a show of support for Pagans decisions doesn't mean they all agreed with them As we are now starting to see

Author:	nightcrawler [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:22 am ]
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People are reading far too much into that article. All it says to me is that the club told Pagan to tank after the Richmond win last year, but that in hindsight, they wish they told him to do it at from the end of the 2003 season. Essentially, Smorgon is from the Synbad school of thought. No offence Synbad, but your thoughts on what the 2004 season did to our progress are well known.

Author:	Synbad [ Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:24 am ]
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nightcrawler wrote: People are reading far too much into that article. All it says to me is that the club told Pagan to tank after the Richmond win last year, but that in hindsight, they wish they told him to do it at from the end of the 2003 season. Essentially, Smorgon is from the Synbad school of thought. No offence Synbad, but your thoughts on what the 2004 season did to our progress are well known. Just about everything i have said over the years has come home to roost.