TalkingCarlton
http://talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

how do we rate our issues in order
http://talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9805		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Wolfe [ Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  how do we rate our issues in order
Since coming back from the game last nite and semi got my frustration out of my system seems that we have many mixed issues but some probably would fix another up if addressed properly.

I am sure people will add more but the list i have and only concentrating on the on - field suggesting off field opens even more things to be addressed.

Denis Pagan as coach
Player Skills
Team list / Talent
Leadership on field
Mentoring / using resources outside the club
General Tactics
..... more probably can be added


How i rate
#1 Skills
This is the most primary deficiency / issue of this club and i believe fix this and most of the other issues would get resolved when players make 28+ clangers on a mostly windless and calm nite on a fresh MCG there are real issues
Marks that should be taken dropped left right and center / Kicks that miss targets by 5- 15 metres even when there is little pressure / Missing easy set shots for goal that should be kicked 75% of the time. General Effort in chasing and contesting to put yerself into a contest and chase someone down or even make a decent tackle is something that should be in every player as standard.

#2 Leadership is also a big concern and has been been a focus of many on TC and i was hoping that the removal of Campo would have fixed but the same issues exist. We dont see enough we some but not enough encourgament from our senior players ... fail to set an example and also to direct and offer advice.. well sure they do some but no where near enough. As was noted in last nights match when Lewis made a mistake it was murphy who came in to offer encourgement. I have hope that Murphy will be a future leader / some of the others like Waite or Bentick or Carrots step up to these roles.

#3 Dennis Pagan we have said is out dated in his tactics or makes moves we dont agree with but perhaps they are done with the expectation that the players having even the basic skills to carry them off all 4 losses this year have come from poor execution of basic skills some can be attributed to a young list some to coaching which Pagan has to take responisibility for or if its our main assistants who take the drills then they need to be changed or something needs to fix this up or even get in a specialist skils coach... of course this should have all been addressed at the start of the year but if Collo can move from the board the Coaching structure can be changed also. I strongly believe that the coaching of the player skills is the primary area DP and his coaching staff are letting down the club can be changed by chainging coach or changing assistants but if results continue like they have then this will happen in forced way rather than in addressing it as it should be.

#4 Mentoring and suing Ex players.
This is something some of the clubs around have been doing and this is something the blues have in abundance with the amount of ex - players who have been great players and chamions of the club. If we could utilise this maybe this will instill culture ... passion and history into our players so they no what it means to be a blue what the history represents and where the blues should be as a power house of the AFL. i am sure there is benefit hear and sure some of the ex - players would be interested to mentor or contribute in the developent of our young list ... we not getting enough from our seniors at present.

#5 The list and our current talent pool i think now that we have embarked on this journey is slowly fixing up. I rate this as my least concern with the pool of talent coming through i believe that the Kangaroos have far more concerns on there future list.
With the likes of Murphy / Walker / Simmo / Waite / Carrots / Bentick / Kennedy / Betts / Fisher and the rest we have mentioned all over the forum there is a good list of mid and young players coming through. With the fact that we will be bottom 4 again we should get further injection (based on current start to this season). As a young list we should progress fix up some of our other problems above and this list will show far more potential than it is currently exhibiting

ANyway good to kow how people rate our issues and if they can add other concerns that i have failed to raise.
Author:  JohnM [ Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
Good effort Wolfe. Here's my list, in order of priority from most important to least important (although they're all important if that makes sense):

CLUB LEADERSHIP
Off-field and on-field we've been suffering from a seige mentality. Finances have been bad and performances not much better, and it seems to have affected the club right the way through. Decision-making needs to be aggressive, enlightened, optimistic and forward-thinking. This will be Smorgon's big test - he wanted the gig, so now let's see what he can bring.

COACHING/FOOTBALL DEPARTMENT
No point getting the cream of the TAC competition if we can't develop them to their fullest potential. No point also having a coaching staff that is old-school in it's approach to sports-science, when the AFL administration is turning our game from football into some hybrid power/endurance athletic event. Not sure if Pagan/Trout/Libba et al are the way of the future (and present)

PRIDE
Something needs to be done to reinvigorate our supporter base, and it needs to come from the top down. With all the bad news we"ve been hit with over the last couple of years it"s no wonder our membership has tumbled. See point one for the answer to this.

On-field, agree with the comments on skills.
Author:  Tractor Boy [ Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
JohnM wrote:
Good effort Wolfe. Here's my list, in order of priority from most important to least important (although they're all important if that makes sense):

CLUB LEADERSHIP
Off-field and on-field we've been suffering from a seige mentality. Finances have been bad and performances not much better, and it seems to have affected the club right the way through. Decision-making needs to be aggressive, enlightened, optimistic and forward-thinking. This will be Smorgon's big test - he wanted the gig, so now let's see what he can bring.

COACHING/FOOTBALL DEPARTMENT
No point getting the cream of the TAC competition if we can't develop them to their fullest potential. No point also having a coaching staff that is old-school in it's approach to sports-science, when the AFL administration is turning our game from football into some hybrid power/endurance athletic event. Not sure if Pagan/Trout/Libba et al are the way of the future (and present)

PRIDE
Something needs to be done to reinvigorate our supporter base, and it needs to come from the top down. With all the bad news we"ve been hit with over the last couple of years it"s no wonder our membership has tumbled. See point one for the answer to this.

On-field, agree with the comments on skills.



Well said John M... I agree...It starts at the top...
Author:  dannyboy [ Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
1) Age: We are young, we have to be patient and let them grow. Do the players make these skill errors at Training? Or is it a result of young lads doing a man's task? Are they tired and so skills drop? All young sides (Doggies a few years back, Geelong a few years back, St Kilda a few years back, Hawks. Richmond and us now) are labelled as having poor skills but is it skills or simply not being strong enough physically/mentally?

2) The spine: We need a CHB and CHF and a FB. Bowyer. Hartlett and Kennedy I pray are the answers to these three.

3) Midfield/Ruck: French has been beaten, nice to have 200cm plus tap ruckman to help out (Batson.Aisake or both please) and once Stevo is taken out of the game we have little influence. But then see point 1 plus we need to add 2 more midfielders (1 with genuine pace).

4) Leadership. I think it will develop in Tex Murph AB Simmo Waite Fish etc. but then we must be patient (point 1).

5) Big improvement in tactics - rotations/kick outs, attacks starting from back pocket the length of the field - fast counter punches etc.

6) Depth - we are developing it (see point 1 though).
Author:  nightcrawler [ Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
We need a CHB capable of playing on the Richos/tredrea/browns/halls of the world.

And we need about 2-3 more running midfielders with good quality skills (ie so we have a proper midfield rotation).

If we had those, everything else would sort itself out IMO.

edit - and Batson and Aisake to come on to replace French.
Author:  Wangers [ Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: how do we rate our issues in order
Wolfe wrote:
Mentoring / using resources outside the club

#4 Mentoring and suing Ex players.
This is something some of the clubs around have been doing and this is something the blues have in abundance with the amount of ex - players who have been great players and chamions of the club. If we could utilise this maybe this will instill culture ... passion and history into our players so they no what it means to be a blue what the history represents and where the blues should be as a power house of the AFL. i am sure there is benefit hear and sure some of the ex - players would be interested to mentor or contribute in the developent of our young list ... we not getting enough from our seniors at present.


Agree with everything mentioned there, Wolfe. In particular, the Mentoring side of things for our young players. I think this is where we fail as a club to embrace this tool as it can assist with their football both on and off the field.

In the industry I'm in, we use it and it is excellent, and I know for a fact that Collingwood use it for each and every one of their new recruits.
Author:  jimmae [ Sat Apr 29, 2006 7:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: how do we rate our issues in order
Wangers wrote:
Wolfe wrote:
Mentoring / using resources outside the club

#4 Mentoring and suing Ex players.
This is something some of the clubs around have been doing and this is something the blues have in abundance with the amount of ex - players who have been great players and chamions of the club. If we could utilise this maybe this will instill culture ... passion and history into our players so they no what it means to be a blue what the history represents and where the blues should be as a power house of the AFL. i am sure there is benefit hear and sure some of the ex - players would be interested to mentor or contribute in the developent of our young list ... we not getting enough from our seniors at present.


Agree with everything mentioned there, Wolfe. In particular, the Mentoring side of things for our young players. I think this is where we fail as a club to embrace this tool as it can assist with their football both on and off the field.

In the industry I'm in, we use it and it is excellent, and I know for a fact that Collingwood use it for each and every one of their new recruits.

I was saying this over a month ago.

To use Wolfe's list of issues, this is how I would rate it:

Player Skills
Team list / Talent
Leadership on field
Mentoring / using resources outside the club
General Tactics
Denis Pagan as coach

The first four are things we can immediately address in one form or another, but they are some of the key reasons why we are seeing issues 5 and 6 come up.

I can't really fault much of what Pagan has done, anything that you could think of changing has at least an equally bad, and more often than not, a worse result.
Author:  budzy [ Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: how do we rate our issues in order
Wolfe wrote:
#1 Skills
This is the most primary deficiency / issue of this club and i believe fix this and most of the other issues would get resolved when players make 28+ clangers on a mostly windless and calm nite on a fresh MCG there are real issues
Marks that should be taken dropped left right and center / Kicks that miss targets by 5- 15 metres even when there is little pressure / Missing easy set shots for goal that should be kicked 75% of the time. General Effort in chasing and contesting to put yerself into a contest and chase someone down or even make a decent tackle is something that should be in every player as standard.

Spot on wolfe.
Just watching Westcoast atm and skillwise we are chalk & cheese.
Whoever is responsible for our skill level needs to be SACKED!!
Our skill level through the great majority of the playing list has been atrocious for too many years.
Author:  The Tyrant [ Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
1) Better players
2) Better coaches
3) more money
Author:  Ponkstar [ Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
To quote Denis (Denuto, that is): "It's the vibe".
Author:  China Blues [ Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: how do we rate our issues in order
Wolfe wrote:
Since coming back from the game last nite and semi got my frustration out of my system seems that we have many mixed issues but some probably would fix another up if addressed properly.

#4 Mentoring and [size=24]suing Ex players.[/size].


Whilst this may help our bottom line financially, it is completey anti-Carlton, and should not be contemplated at all unless it is to teach a lesson to those bastards who dropped us in the poo with the AFL and the fine/draft penalty problems.Wouldn't help much with morale/culture or passion much either :wink:
Author:  Wolfe [ Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Not sure i understand you China Blues

Ex - Players liek Ashman / Rhys / Maclure ect there is a huge list of Carlton greats from the 70' to the 90' would be great if these player took some input into our young list and showed them what the Blues where not what we are currently. Instill some of the good and successful years into our young list
Author:  jimmae [ Sat Apr 29, 2006 10:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
You misspelt 'using' as 'suing' so he thinks you're referring to litigation against ex-players, rather than making use of our ex-player pool. :)
Author:  billy_bongo [ Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
JohnM wrote:
CLUB LEADERSHIP
Off-field and on-field we've been suffering from a seige mentality. Finances have been bad and performances not much better, and it seems to have affected the club right the way through. Decision-making needs to be aggressive, enlightened, optimistic and forward-thinking. This will be Smorgon's big test - he wanted the gig, so now let's see what he can bring.

COACHING/FOOTBALL DEPARTMENT
No point getting the cream of the TAC competition if we can't develop them to their fullest potential. No point also having a coaching staff that is old-school in it's approach to sports-science, when the AFL administration is turning our game from football into some hybrid power/endurance athletic event. Not sure if Pagan/Trout/Libba et al are the way of the future (and present)

PRIDE
Something needs to be done to reinvigorate our supporter base, and it needs to come from the top down. With all the bad news we"ve been hit with over the last couple of years it"s no wonder our membership has tumbled. See point one for the answer to this.

On-field, agree with the comments on skills.


Right on, John - the buck starts and finishes at the top.

As for the masked trio of Pagan/Trout/Libba, they don't actually inspire visions of a Brave New Blue World. Let's hope the next time we go looking for a coach, we have proper procedures in place that will maximize our chances of securing the best available.

Player-wise, we're in a Melbourne Cup, not a Golden Slipper. Even if everything goes absolutely right, it'll probably be 2009 before we can mount any kind of challenge for the flag. We need to develop everyone on the list with the proviso that in a borderline case between a younger player and an older, we go for the younger.
Author:  verbs [ Sat Apr 29, 2006 11:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
1. Koutoufides. Why is he around?
2. Whitnall. He sucks.
3. Walker. Can't kick.
4. Livingston. Delist.
5. Wiggins. Where is the beer?
6. Pagan. Get rid of.
7. Prendergast. Who?
9. The Mods... 8)
10. Synbad.
11. BV.
12. Global warming.
13. Death.
Author:  Deano Supremo [ Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
Did somebody say issues?
Author:  Wojee [ Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
Issue #1 usually comes first, at least that's how most periodicals work.
Author:  Deano Supremo [ Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
That'd be it!
Author:  Kaptain Kouta [ Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have tissues.
Author:  Wojee [ Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
The biggest issue is usually the bumper Christmas issue.
Page 1 of 3 All times are UTC + 10 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/