Yehp, no doubt about it Sydney, Pagan is to blame.

Wholeheartedly, 100% pure and simple - it is all Pagan's fault. Those players GWS mentioned wouldn't make one bit of difference.

Now if only we can track Wayne Brittain down to take over, I'm sure he'll fix things right up!!!

Brittain never brought the shame to Carlton that Pagan has.

_________________
"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

Look MM in 2002 they got French and fisher in 2003 they got Walker and Stevens. If most side could get players of that quality in the draft they would be happy but your mate DP wants to use it as an excuse . None of the players on that list would make one bit of difference to how we play.
When you picked your final eight at the start of the year where did you have Adelaide and Sydney- both sides lacking talent ageing list not used the draft only ever topped up but both could play off for the flag this year as they are better coached.

Denis Pagan the true Dinosaur of coaching - It takes about 1/2 hour for the pain to register in his brain

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Compare Adelaide and Sydney's senior players with ours, then you'll see why they are where they are and we are where we are

_________________
"I said I'd tell you the truth. Didn't say you'd like it." - Finch

Start of the year we all had us way ahead of North, Richmond, Hawthorn. Now everyone makes excuses its Kouta's fault, Lance is fat, Campo can't ski. Buck stops with the coach after 3 years, no more excuses.

_________________
"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

If you're just going to be stupid Sydney there's not much point in this at all.

What was the stupid comment - The players or calling Pagan a dinosaur

and Effes - Everyone had written off Sydney and Adelaide at the start of the year most had Adelaide winning the spoon. Now all of a sudden their side has talent - where did it come from

It came because they are better coached and they are winning - hell we even looked talented last week.

You cant keep blameing the old administration for our plight we have had three years to fix it and we have gone backwards - players should be improving not going backwards

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Have we really had 3 years to fix it Madblueboy and SB?

So then what were the draft penalties?

_________________
"I said I'd tell you the truth. Didn't say you'd like it." - Finch

3 years to fix a crap list with picks 45+.

Sydney Blue you might be a true blue Carlton Supporter but to put it bluntly you are an .... should I use a Sam Newmanism here ... no better not.... zero tolerance and all.

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Your entire argument.

Somehow picking up Barnaby French is now something that any club would have been happy with?

French is a good trier and I like the guy but to suggest that picking up three good players and one honest toiler over two national drafts is sufficient and would make no difference to us than if we also had six genuinely talented kids to add to that is stupid.

There's no other way you can spin it.

The draft penalties hurt.

They are not things you just recover from in a year or three. Even if only 2/3 of those high picks turned out to be good ones that's potentially four 10 year players we're missing. That will take 10 years to recover from because for every one of those ten years those talented kids will be absent from our list.

Add to that the fact that not only would those four (or six if we'd picked well) be in the team right now the worst four (or six) in our team would not be there.

To suggest we'd be playing the same way is stupid.

That's all.

Effes the draft penalties haven't really hurt us yet, except for a couple of Wells cameos against us.
The next 3 years is when those penalties are going to take effect because thats when the players we missed out on are going to blossom. I don't accept the penalties as an excuse for the last 3 years.

_________________
"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

Agro if the side had showed signs of improvement and were not getting belted every 1/3rd week by 10 + goals I would agree that DP might be our man . But DP has washed his hands with the current situation said he needs Reiwolt anf Brown to win and is sitting down waiting for the draft to toss him some players that he thinks he can work with. I tell you now it aint gonner happen . We will wallowing down the bottom for the next two to three years and the same ferals that revolted against Elliott and Brittain are going to rise from the dust and toss out collo and Pagan with it . you just watch this space . If we dont improve dramatically next year there will be hell to pay . Setting us back another 3- 4 years

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Game - I agree the penalties will hurt more over time as those kids blossom but to suggest they haven't really hurt yet is wrong I think.

My Carlton team has

Goddard, Wells, Staker, Moloney, McLean and Adcock

Yours has

McGrath, Morrell, Chambers, Wiggins, Camporeale and Scotland in it (or whichever 6 are your last 6 picked).


I'm hurting...

4 of those 6 were brought to the club by Pagan - Try again

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

*waits for Tyrant*

_________________
|♥♥♥♥♥♥| http://www.blueseum.org |♥♥♥♥♥♥|

BECAUSE HE WAS DENIED ANYTHING HIGHER!

Do you seriously think the recycled players program would have been in place over the last couple of years if we'd had access to the higher picks?

Who were Adelaides and Sydney PP's again

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

"The same ferals that revolted against Elliot and Brittain"?????

I voted them out and i am glad i did!!!...DO NOT class me as feral!

So let me see ,you were happy with the past Administration?

GWS wrote

Point taken they have already started to hurt.
What really pisses me off about Pagan is that he has his favorites and it is just not professional. He played Micky Martin to get him to 300 games because he is his mate. He drove a club legend out of the club. He gives Sporn and Wiggins numerous chances yet delists Hopper who had more talent than both put together. Deluca played about a dozen matches in a row without having any impact what so ever but Beasy gets about a quarter of a game to prove his worth.

_________________
"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides