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deano35
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 9:18 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Looks like Marchbank and Cunningham will get 1 year deals.
Finally some common sense
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bondiblue
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 9:26 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

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Ultimately the decision on Marchbank lies with Voss and Austin I guess.

Why Marchbank shouldnt be so easily written off, and I suspect he wont be:

Max Gawn was recruited in 2009 as a 19yo. He had already done an ACL prior to selection.
He was in and out of the team with injuries. In 2012 he not only damaged his meniscus, but it turned out another ACL.
He returned in 2013 and had ongoing hamstring issues and injury. Gawn played in the reserves right up to halfway 0f the 2015 season.
So this fellow had ACL and soft tissues issues between 2009 and 2015 before he had his break out season.

After 6 years in limbo Gawn was retained and enjoyed his break out year in 2016. In 2017 his hammy issues flared up again and he needed surgery which kept him out for another 3 months. Following his return from injury, Gawn struggled to recapture his form from the previous season and early in the season, and by his own admission, he said that he wasn't back to the speed of the game due to his long-term injury.

Footy is a tough sport, and if Marchbank is healthy (and it seems so) his game will only improve and his athletic ability will do the rest

Marchbank fractured a vertabrae from a courageous act. That kept him out for 2 years. Then he did his ACL in his first game back in the reserves. Bad luck.

I can see why we persevere with him.

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bondiblue
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 9:31 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

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GreatEx wrote:
Yeah, a bit too much obsession over the LOB contract from some posters. We get it already! It's not rocket surgery why he has been given a contract. Let's move on, shall we?

I am pretty confident Marchbank will get an extension, although that data someone shared the other day about his poor 1-on-1 stats surprised me. Hopefully that will be put in context. He offers a lot of versatility so if the medicos reckon he's good to go then I'd be shocked to... well you get the picture.


There's more to it than just the stats GE.


I watched the Dees and Pies games over the last 2 days and have to say the weakest link in the backline for mine was Weitering. He was loose, slow and didnt impact the contest where he would have before injury. In fact, he wouldve taken marks in some of those contests but instead punched at the ball.

In the Dees game, he was minding Melksham with Gov. I wouldnt be surprised if some of the one on one numbers against Marchbank were in contests where he was up against monsters like Cox, and Brown, and Jackson and blokes who you would think should be minding the monsters Young and weitering. Marchbank is 193cm. He could play intercept mark jumping at the ball, or he could play wing, but not KPD.

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bondiblue
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 9:35 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

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deano35 wrote:
Looks like Marchbank and Cunningham will get 1 year deals.
Finally some common sense


That's lucky for them.

I'm guessing that Austin is looking at who is available in the market place before finalising contracts. There's also the rumoured Ed Curnow contract to be done. He should be on a rookie list imo.

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99prelim
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 10:15 am 
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Robert Walls

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keogh wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
Sidefx back when I started, the Recruiting Manager was the List Manager and the Footballer Manager looked after the Salary Cap stuff. Now there are all different folk doing all manner of things.

The Recruiting Manager use to sit down with the Coach and chat. The Coach would tell the Recruiting Manager how he wanted to build a team and what he required. Normally a 1st Round pick was left to the RM but thereafter it was on agreement of sorts between the two.

With that theory in place, it obviously makes it hugely difficult for the RM when a Club constantly changes Coaches every 3 years. I remember one conversation after the RM had come from a meeting with our new Coach. The RM said the last 3 years of recruiting for the last Coach was now a waste as the new Coach wanted to go with different types. He was back to square one.

That isn't to say some picks weren't stuffed up, it just means Clubs that have the same Coach and RM together for some time can build some synergy into the decision-making process. Chopping and changing the Coach has many ramifications across the board when building a team.

As an example it appears Vossy will build a team around powerful, contested ball winners to suit his style. So the Recruiter goes that way when Drafting/Trading. If McRea came in as Coach in 2025 he wants defensive runners to suit his Rebounding game style.

It is the wants, needs and nuances, within a Coaches game plan, that the RM has to factor in.

Regards Cazzesman

If you look at the Stocker trade on YouTube it’s clear that in a room of a dozen blokes only two are running the show
SOS and Brodie
Are you saying that is the type of player Bolton wanted or SOS and Brodie just thought Stocker was going to be gun.
And If Voss wants hard at it players why delist Stocker. It give Boyd and O’Brien 2 year deals.
To me it doesn’t look like much of a system

It comes down to whether the LM and his assistants know talent whatever game style the coach wants.


With all the uproar on social media, TC and BF about Stocker's delisting, it is now painfully clear that his delisting had nothing to do with "what we mere supporters saw". It had to do with what "we didn't see"
We (including me) need to move on.

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Cazzesman
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 10:18 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/09/07/ ... xtensions/

Regards Cazzesman

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bluehammer
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 10:40 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Is Cunningham actually any good? I mean he played that decent game against Essendon* once but we are being incredibly persistent with a bloke who even when 'fit' seemingly couldn't get on the park 2 weeks in a row...

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Mickstar
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 10:41 am 
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Craig Bradley
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Cazzesman wrote:
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/09/07/carlton-duo-on-the-cusp-of-inking-contract-extensions/

Regards Cazzesman


Good move .

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Cazzesman
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 10:54 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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I think Cunners best is AFL standard and his leg speed is certainly required. Sadly in racing parlance, he is abit of a finely tuned thoroughbred and thoroughbreds do break down at crucial stages.

If his body in now deemed to be right, I think he is worth a 1 year contract as a Rookie. We simply haven't seen the best of him for a prolonged period. Fingers crossed, if gets a contract he can stay on the park.

Regards Cazzesman

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Crusader
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 11:23 am 
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Craig Bradley

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bluehammer wrote:
Is Cunningham actually any good? I mean he played that decent game against Essendon** once but we are being incredibly persistent with a bloke who even when 'fit' seemingly couldn't get on the park 2 weeks in a row...

Valid question. Pretty sure he’s had just the handful of games with midfielder numbers, and most of those were against the scum.

Personally, I would’ve cut bait by now.

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bmaurizio
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 11:34 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Both extremely lucky footballers , but as one wound expect Vossy had to tread carefully 1st year,
eg the Stocker delisting out cry.
End 2023 there’ll be the serious clean out. Meanwhile
lets hope Austin can trade in some mature talent and remedy some of our issues , and that the youngsters he selects have some impact reasonably early.

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Crusader
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 11:55 am 
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Craig Bradley

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GreatEx wrote:
Yeah, a bit too much obsession over the LOB contract from some posters. We get it already! It's not rocket surgery why he has been given a contract. Let's move on, shall we?

I am pretty confident Marchbank will get an extension, although that data someone shared the other day about his poor 1-on-1 stats surprised me. Hopefully that will be put in context. He offers a lot of versatility so if the medicos reckon he's good to go then I'd be shocked to... well you get the picture.

The takeaway from those 1-on-1 stats was the low volume of contests and, possibly, a flaw in the system that created a mismatch against the third banana (Plowman/Kemp/Marchbank) when defending the inevitable turnover.

Plowman’s name is triggering for some, such that any list with his name must be a list of things that are shit. BUT, the same data from last season - Teague’s every man for himself ‘system’ - showed he finished with a loss rate of 20%.

Also, 1-on-1 contests are not necessarily marking situations. Lose a race for the ground ball, or miss a tackle and that’ll go against the score.

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bondiblue
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:53 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

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Crusader wrote:
GreatEx wrote:
Yeah, a bit too much obsession over the LOB contract from some posters. We get it already! It's not rocket surgery why he has been given a contract. Let's move on, shall we?

I am pretty confident Marchbank will get an extension, although that data someone shared the other day about his poor 1-on-1 stats surprised me. Hopefully that will be put in context. He offers a lot of versatility so if the medicos reckon he's good to go then I'd be shocked to... well you get the picture.

The takeaway from those 1-on-1 stats was the low volume of contests and, possibly, a flaw in the system that created a mismatch against the third banana (Plowman/Kemp/Marchbank) when defending the inevitable turnover.

Plowman’s name is triggering for some, such that any list with his name must be a list of things that are shit. BUT, the same data from last season - Teague’s every man for himself ‘system’ - showed he finished with a loss rate of 20%.

Also, 1-on-1 contests are not necessarily marking situations. Lose a race for the ground ball, or miss a tackle and that’ll go against the score.


Thanks for the clarification on 1 on 1's...didnt know that. :thumbsup:

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bondiblue
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:58 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

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Have question for you about the 3 new contracts for LOB Cotts and Owies

Anyone know if LOB's 2 year extension is to continue as a rookie or has he been promoted like Kennedy was?

Also Owies is an ex Cat B player now. Is his 2 year contract a promotion to the rookie or main list?

Ditto Cottrell?

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kezza
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 1:53 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Mickstar wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/09/07/carlton-duo-on-the-cusp-of-inking-contract-extensions/

Regards Cazzesman


Good move .

Happy with that, one year deals to injury prone players is a sensible move.
Hopefully both can get a good run at it next season.
Still a bit baffled by the talk of Ed Curnow being offered a new contract.
We don't have many available places on the list.
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Crusader
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 1:53 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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bondiblue wrote:
Have question for you about the 3 new contracts for LOB Cotts and Owies

Anyone know if LOB's 2 year extension is to continue as a rookie or has he been promoted like Kennedy was?

Also Owies is an ex Cat B player now. Is his 2 year contract a promotion to the rookie or main list?

Ditto Cottrell?

It’s all a bit makey uppy coming through covid, but the facts as I understand them:

- 44 players max. If you have the full compliment of 6 Cat A and 2 Cat B, then your primary list is 36.
- The maximum period that any player can spend on either of the rookie lists is three years.
- Given the disruption covid caused to list sizes and the TPP, a fourth ‘bridging’ year was temporarily added to that maximum term.
- Cat A rookie contracts are negotiated year-to-year.
- Akuei is on a multi-year Cat B deal.
- MSD contracts are Cat A rookie deals, with negotiable terms for the length of the contract. Salary is now standardised, so there’s no more Newcombe-like f*ckery.
- Mirkov signed a contract for the full 3yr term, as the rules permitted at the time. Boyd signed for 1.5 years. Hayes and Durdin were only offered the half year as we were oversubscribed.

Owies and Cottrell have both been on rookie contracts for four years. They must be promoted to the primary list, or put back into the pool as a DFA.

I don’t know if O’Brien is back on the primary list or not. I was hoping he’d be gone, so didn’t bother looking up the specifics of the rule.

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Drewgirl
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 2:58 pm 
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formerly Fevola

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I dont get the obsession with Cunners to be honest. I would let him go or make him a rookie. He is made of tissue. He has never played a full season. Correct me if im wrong.
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bondiblue
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 3:01 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

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Crusader wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Have question for you about the 3 new contracts for LOB Cotts and Owies

Anyone know if LOB's 2 year extension is to continue as a rookie or has he been promoted like Kennedy was?

Also Owies is an ex Cat B player now. Is his 2 year contract a promotion to the rookie or main list?

Ditto Cottrell?

It’s all a bit makey uppy coming through covid, but the facts as I understand them:

- 44 players max. If you have the full compliment of 6 Cat A and 2 Cat B, then your primary list is 36.
- The maximum period that any player can spend on either of the rookie lists is three years.
- Given the disruption covid caused to list sizes and the TPP, a fourth ‘bridging’ year was temporarily added to that maximum term.
- Cat A rookie contracts are negotiated year-to-year.
- Akuei is on a multi-year Cat B deal.
- MSD contracts are Cat A rookie deals, with negotiable terms for the length of the contract. Salary is now standardised, so there’s no more Newcombe-like f*ckery.
- Mirkov signed a contract for the full 3yr term, as the rules permitted at the time. Boyd signed for 1.5 years. Hayes and Durdin were only offered the half year as we were oversubscribed.

Owies and Cottrell have both been on rookie contracts for four years. They must be promoted to the primary list, or put back into the pool as a DFA.

I don’t know if O’Brien is back on the primary list or not. I was hoping he’d be gone, so didn’t bother looking up the specifics of the rule.


Great stuff Cru. Much appreciated.

By that, LOB could continue on the rookie list for another 2 years and be grateful he's on a list.

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bondiblue
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 3:04 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

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Drewgirl wrote:
I dont get the obsession with Cunners to be honest. I would let him go or make him a rookie. He is made of tissue. He has never played a full season. Correct me if im wrong.



It has been a long time since I last saw Cunners. I have that game vs the Druggies etched in my head, and that game vs Druggies again he looked really mobile, more alert and competitive than before till he did his ACL.

Like all of us, we wish he would make the grade and star, but I think he is made of tissue paper too. A rookie spot is plenty imo, unless we are not compelled too.

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aboynamedsue
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 3:08 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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frank dardew wrote:
I like Marchbank think he has a lot of talent BUT has played 4 games in 3 years so why wouldn’t he be one of the last signed up same with Cunningham
We have too many on our list that are continually injured and long term injuries -costs us every year

The finals teams make finals because they have access generally to their whole list and their supposed better players

We don’t we continue to fall short and need to shake it up alright
I hope he gets another contract but understand why they would be hesitating

We need to get better and more ruthless and perhaps if we do both we may be playing in the finals matches next season

I agree Frank, good post.

We certainly showed the ruthlessness with Stocker.

Conversely, it looks like we are continuing to be very patient with the injury prone Cunningham & Marchbank. And personally I think LOB & Boyd did very well to get two year deals - I’m glad they are both staying, but I think one year deals for both would have been fair. I’m also not sure what the rush was to sign S Durdin - I’m a little surprised we didn’t wait to see what happens during the trade period (which looks like being our strategy with Setterfield, Cunningham & Marchbank). Does it strike anyone else as a bit odd that we prioritised signing S Durdin ahead of Setterfield? I would be signing Setterfield to a one year deal now, unless the club thinks it can get a #30-40 pick for him (I very much doubt we will).

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