oh yes real legitimate, nominate the three or four who made it, ignore everyone else who didn't. :garthp

This is now a religious debate.

Its belief

which never puts a roof over your head

only allows those of us with what we need to crap on about what we have


but hey

I am glad carlton still exits for the crap to continue.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Not to mention that bottle of scotch you're sucking on.

Confuscious say, "If you dont want to hear answer, dont ask @#$%&! question"

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

I think youre the one wityh your head so far up your arse youre giving yourself a heady fist.

You obviously have such a small small mind.. and youre interested in very small things.... and very easily pleased as a person you eat steak and eggs .. and drink beer when you can afford it and water when you cant.....

Who cares about durability of Bradley in 2006.. what we want is someone who would have passed the torch to the kids and left the club the same way as he found it from the generation before.

Why would you have a tug over a @#$%&! you had 10 years ago when youve been a virgin for the last eight..????

Beats me!!!... but thats you!!!...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

now BV do not try and make this a logical argument, stick to the emotive stuff...it works for the younger kids after all

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

OK!

I like Effes's work wherever he posts and perhaps he should have quoted the question!

@#$%&! the question we are talking belief systems here!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

So, Game, after 25 odd pages of discussion, this is what I've noted as your 'recipe for success'.

1. Delist Murphy and Kennedy

2. Re-draft Plunkett and Beasy

3. Sack Denis Pagan

4. Hire Mark Harvey

Have I missed anything?

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

New theme song?

It's all about the game, and how u play it
It's all about control, and if u can take it
It's all about your debt, and if u can pay it
It's all about pain, and who's gonna make it

I am the game u dont wanna play me
I am control no way u can shake me
I am heavy debts no way u can pay me
I am the pain and I know you cant take me

Look over your shoulder, ready to run
Like a good little bitch from a smoking gun
I am the game and i make the rules
So move on out you can die like the fool

Trying to find out what my moves gonna be
Come on over sucker why dont u ask me
Dont u forget theres a price you can pay
Cuz i am the game and I WANT TO PLAY

{Guitar solo}

Time to play the game.
Time to play the game.

It's all about the game, and how u play it
It's all about control, and if u can take it
It's all about your debt, and if u can pay it
It's all about pain, and who's gonna make it

I am the game u dont wanna play me
I am control no way u can shake me
I am heavy debts no way u can pay me
I am the pain and I know you cant take me

To play the game your gonna be the same
Your gonna change your name your gonna die if flames

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

I must apologise to The Game for not being around today to fight the good fight.

so Pagan Lovers lets get a few things straight
Finishing second last to get Walker and Stevens is not list manangement
If it is finishing 11th to get russell and Hartlett and missing Deledio - Frankilin - Tambling - Roughhead and co - Is therefore bad list management. so Pagans either good at it or bad at it you cant have it both ways.
Relying on Rookies is not good list management.
Trading for recycled players - is not good list management

you may all think that the membership rose because of Pagan this fact cannot be proven or un proven if it did then good on Pagan

you may all think we attracted sponsors because of Pagan but as again this is speculation because we dont know who would have come on board with out him.

Pagan MAY have been the best available coach at the time
He MAY attract sponsors
He MAY massage your players and develop them ( although at carlton evidence of this suggest not)
He MAY have cleaned out all the so called soft cocks at the club

But there is one UNDENIABLE FACT and that is when it comes to game day this guy sucks - He is the worst tactical coach in the competition . He fails to react when things get pear shape. He does not use the bench- he leaves players that are getting smashed on their opponenet for far to long. He plays players when they are injured - See Fev.

Now you can shout - you can yell - you can post as much positives about this bloke all you like . But as a match day coach when it counts he sucks.

Tell me one good move or good selection he has made at the three years at Carlton that turned a match our way.

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Beaumont = best footballer to never win a brownlow...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

He was better than Clarke - go on argue that one

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Great post SB, in one post you've made more sense than what Game has in about 300. It's all I ever wanted to see, some reasoning behind the bleating. Doesn't mean I agree with all your points but.

I agree with you, on matchday I don't think Pagan is the best bloke in the comp in the box. However, at our stage of development I think Gameday isn't as high in the list of priorities as setting a decent club culture, cultivating decent youth and building a decent list so in two to three years time a fresh coach can come along and reap the rewards from the seeds sowed by Pagan.

As I said earlier in the thread, Sydney early 90's with Barrassi as coach should be our model. Weed out the crap, build up a solid list with genuine talent, build a solid culture and then we'll have a solid platform to launch from.

And as for your points about list management, all of those early picks that gained us Murph, Walker, Russell, Kennedy and Bower would have been traded away for the Mansfields, McKernans amd O'Reillys of this world, so therefore what Denis and the club are doing does qualify as decent list management. Jade Rawlings, Jonothan Hay and Ty Zantuck would probably be wearing navy blue under the Parkin/Brittain regime.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

Clarke never lead an on-field rebbellion.

Clarke's skills by foot were similar to Beaumont.

Clarke played (for the Bullants) and trained his guts out in his last year providing a fantastic example of the commitment required at this level to our youngsters.

Clarke was a dud, make no mistake, but he earnt my respect during his time at the club, and I know I'm not alone.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

As for Beaumont, he lost all of my respect after that Kangas game, and then the resulting sour grapes crap that he spewes in the media after getting his marching orders.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

Clarke was a dud. He knew he was a dud, and put in the hard yards on the track because he was a dud.
Beaumont was an average player who acted like a princess.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

Well for about 300k he shpuld have been.. but alsa they both played till the time they both got the arse...

Youre compaing a player who is a bucket of shit and has the character of a bucket of bitter shit..and on 300k

To a player whoo was a bucket of shit who had abit more class....

Cant see the point comparing them really... but obviously you can.

PS neither are playing anymore.. and neither were good enough to improve us....

ARGUE!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

this is where we dance around the maypole.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

how mnay match winning moves did sheeds make last year? Or Malthouse? (won't even bother asking about that dud Thomas) Its easy to make brilliant moves with good cattle, not so easy with crap.

Do I think denis is the best match day coach - no but so what. With our list it doesn't really matter, what matters is we have someone to build a platform, we have a teacher, we have someone who works his arse off to help this club prepare itself/turn itself around.

See The Game argues Denis is no longer any good with youth, but what's the proof of that one? His record indicates that he is excellent with youth and a teacher does not lose that ability simply because he ages, if anything a teachergets better.

You argue he cannot make a move and your proof is , is it that final he lost to Adeliade is that it? Yet the truth of that final was that Pagan had covered Blight's arse and the game should have been over at half time but the players missed simple set shots. Chirst carey missed one from about 6 inches out. In all elite sports it is always about taking your chances. That day Nth failed to take its chances not because of denis but in spite of him. By the end of that first half their minds were shot so when the tide turned it ewas Adeliade who had the belief. But if they had have nailed those shots (which they should have) denis would have three cups to his name.

I agree he made few great moves last year but as with Malthouse and Sheeds, denis does not have flexibilty and so maybe you are right, maybe he should have kept Beaumont and when in trouble he could have brought him into the middle to ruck.

I expect better performances this year because we have far greater depth (though mostly kids) to cover injuries. last year Livo and T-Bird down meant we had no flexibility down back. French down meant we rucked with a first year player. We lacked flexibility. As the year went on and players returned (especially French and Fish) we had some flexibility and our performances improved - funny that.

As for Setanta on Stafford (as and example of a bold coaching stroke) well I am glad he didn't. I also liked the way he has brought on AB and Simmo. Now people can bleat about playing them earlier or more on the ground but the fact is by the end of the year they were both well under way to establishing themselves. To me that is becuase the coaching staff have handled them both correctly. My measure is not what ifs but how did they gos.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Here I was thinking Lance would cop twice the attention now Campo was gone.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Pretty sure the margin started to narrow once he took Fev off Gehrig that day

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#DonTheStash