with about 8 minutes to go int he 2nd - it went pear shape and then Lance was moved, not the otjher way round - yes i know BV but really if this is going to be sprouted in every thread as the reason we lost then in every thread I'll refute it. Go buy yourself an ignore button.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Yeah but by the time Lance was moved back, Richmond had already basically pegged us back and had dominated the quarter in general play even with Lance still forward. The fact that Lance remained in defence the rest of the night certainly hurt our chances of winning but even so from the opening bounce of the second quarter we just looked a different side (in the negative sense) whereas Richmond looked much better....

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

Exactly.

Tigers came out after half time and simply manned up - and we had no-one to kick the ball to. With no easy avenue forward we were screwed.

By the time Lance went onto Richo it was basically a deckchairs on the titanic scenario.

I thought we took a major step backwards with our tackling too. At one stage I saw a Carlton player tackle the opposition player, hold him, then let him go - and the bloke ran off and kicked it away. Our inability to lay hands on the Tigers midfielders basically gave them free run.

Analysis of the game forgeting about the costly skill errors and some of thecoaching moves

Ist Quarter
Tigers didnt man up and apply much pressure
Blues had freedom ran the ball well got it to our forwards was a reasonably free flowing game which we won both the quarter and the free flowing played errors where there but not to bad

2nd quarter
Wallace got the Tigers to match up and apply pressure
Tigers won clearance you was that they wanted the ball more than our guy. Our midfield ... Stevo / Houla / Kouta didnt want the ball as much as the tigers the ball no longer easy to get so sat back more didnt chase as much kept in game by Walks and Murph.
Errors on the Blues where forced
Errors on Tigers where of there own making would have been interesting if we actually pressured them. Unpressured turn overs ... Missing easy set shots

3rd Quarter
Similar to second but even more where blues suffered from forced errors and Tigers from unforced IE Being clear and turning ball over as opposed to the blues being pressured and turning the ball over
Add onto both sides poor decision making made for a game fiilled with errors

4th Quarter
We prob applied more pressure but both sides continued trend of making errors just that the game got more congested and messy with little scoring.
Prob equal in forced and unforced errors in the last quarter .

Season over! There's absolutely no denying it. No "It's only round 5 FFS!" comments needed. We are genuine rubbish.

Out: DeLuca, In: Kennedy

Over the course of the year, would be pleased to see: Edwards/Bower phase out Thornton/Saddington.

Not calling for Pagan's head just yet, but wouldn't care if he goes at the end of the season.

We need to trade aggressively at year's end, and stock up on hard running midfielders.

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"The Wigg's big in 08!" - Chris Judd

Erm....excuse me Cyclonus....were you actually under the impression we were going to make the finals or something?

I don't think anyone has been kidding themselves that were were going to have a "season" for it to be over. I am sure that the Melbourne game might have caused us to think we might have been further along than we actually were.

It's all still about the kids learning to do it their way. They are doing it tough at the moment, but it is a long process. They are being let down in the fundamentals (ie skills and tackling) and I wish there would be some evidence of these issues being addressed.

And phasing out Thornton??? Pfftt. It's not his fault he has to match up on the best forwards every week. He keeps Williams to 2 goals one week and then gets slammed for getting towelled by the games greatest enigma the very next.

it 's getting harder and harder too accept forking out my $160 bucks for my memebrship when it's hard too go to the game for me.

But then, why would I want too waste my time and go to the game.

We played shit last night, shit against Sydney and we still only lost by 15 points in total.

Really confusing what too make of the situation.

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Supporting the Blues No Matter What

I said last week that I think Saddington isnt up to the job and Thornton, well he is really only playing as there is no-one else.. I stated Livingston should have been brought in to the team and I believe this would have made a difference. I agree, the quicker Bower and Edwards progress the sooner we can get rid of these duds....When Whitnall went on to Richo he did well to start with because he played in front of him, eventually richo got many of his kicks on long leads outside 50m...Thornton never plays in front, last week against Williams he started behind him every time, I mean what chance does he have. De Luca was ok tonight, better than some others...our forward line functioned ok, they dropped a couple of marks but overall when they got it in quick we got a goal, the problem is we dont get it in quick because we have a very average midfield...I Mean a team with Fevola, Waite, Fisher, Whitnall, Betts, Deluca would haveto be close to the best on talent, they just dont get enough opportunity to show it.

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Succumb to your highest emotion!!!!

Pagan i have some advise for you...

"A Good Tradesman never complains about his tools". Stop with all this young crap, how often do you need to state the obvious ? We all know we are a young team and we are a developing team. What concerns me currently is your use of attacking types as defensive types.

Kouta is not as damaging on the ball as he was. Why not use Kouta as the fill in backman ahead of Lance. Test Kouta's leadership qualities by giving him the job to do. Surely Kouta as a fill in defender ( just like Lance ) could at the very least offer the same and if anything help with team structure. Lance stays foward.

Kouta to the backline is less damaging to the team than Lance to the backline.

Simmo to the backline yesterday, yet Cory McG gets dropped ??
Dylan recruited as a backup ruckman,played defensive, yet Livo in the stands?

I would really really like to know what Pagans plan is for Carlton? Does he want to make us competetive, does he want us to win games or does he want us to be great again?

If its about being great, then be bold and go out on a limb and do it. Make the sacrifices that are required and move forward. If we think we can be a great side with Lance going back and forwards like a yoyo then we are kidding ourselves and Pagan is the one misleading us.

I don't like seeing talent wasted, Lance is either a forward at Carlton or he has no long term value to our club. Now i don't advocate trading him but if Pagan continues with his tactics, seriously trade Lance now that he has value and lets get ourselves a backman ( be it another young lad, or a young superkid ). At least we would be moving in the right direction.

I think Pagan really needs to decide what the futures of certain players are. If he is to be our long term coach moving forward then he must and i stress must make some drastic list changes, and if that means we lose Lance then we must lose him.

This season is no longer about finals or creditability it should be about the future, and when we consider the future it also should mean the future of the coach.

I would love for Pagan to give a presentation to the board now outlining how he is going to change our future. His game glans his tactics for success, his vision... As if he was a new candicate who was applying for the job. Would be very interesting.

Yeah lets keep blaming the players poor skills, poor decision making, blah blah blah... What do they do at training these days, kick to kick or maybe they just all run to one end of the ground together stay there for a while stare at each other, then run back up the other end, only to turn back to the other end again. Isn't this the way we play at the moment.

THe coach is accountable and he should take his accountability out on the players. Stop trying to save yourself Pagan and start trying to save our Club.

Now i don't know if this makes any sense any more but geez it felt good writing it.

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I know a little secret. And i'm not sharing.

^ here here,

the most heartbreaking thing about last night was that we had a good crack at it, we had a good bloody crack and it wasn't enough, against richmond especially.

-2008!

Play kids like Blackwell and Kennedy just play em man because we want to know who is the future and who isnt.Play O'Hailpin for a month and see if this guy can play and I want to see Batson in the ants first as well as the other of O'Hailpin.They are either injured or in the ants seconds.

Conserative coaching is not good.Back the kids to do a job.If they get pumped so what.If they cant handle it they belong in the bush.O'Hailpin could of been tried on Richo and Whitnall could of been kept up forward.

Denis is not backing the kids.Learning is all about learning from your mistakes isnt it.Conserative doesnt equal progressive.
In saying all this I thought we lost it in the middle.Bentick played hurt after being crunched by Richo fairly.He is our only true inside midfielder and his influence is bigger than many people think.That is why Blackwell should be given a go in the seniors as well.


Worse loss for the year.Glad for Richo.For all the negatives placed on him his heart is in the right place and Wighty my Tiger mate reckons his second efforts were amazing.I tend to agree.


To sum up,the Tigers wanted it more in a game we should have won.Poor effort and poor coaching.And some advice for Lappin.If you are going to blast a player playing his 3rd game fair enough but its a bit rich when you produce 7 clangers yourself.The only guy who went over to Russell after his mistake that cost us a goal was a guy playing his 5th game,Murphy.Lappin is a good player but should have a good hard look in the mirror this morning.

I agree Tractor. Kouta is offering nothing as a forward. He floats around. Let him be accountable at half back and have to work hard.

It would be funny if it wasnt lso tragic that DelUca is still out there. The guy is barely Bullants standard. Get this clown off and bring Kennedy in.

Lappin has gone back to his 2005 ways. Unaccoutable, can't hold a tackle, turnovers, doesnt chase. I wish we traded him last year. After a good Round 1, he has been awful.

Walker is a star. He ran his guts out and covered lappin and the other bludgers down back. I am really starting to love this kid.

Our leadership comes from Fevola Whitnall and probably Waite.
Murphy will be captain before Stevens.

Fevs game was superb (except for the shooting).

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T E A M

The reason we are losing games is that our midfield does not have the capabilities to run hard enough. Teams are much better than us at making space going forward, which means they get clean possesion between the middle and half foward and kick it deeper into the foward line.

We get clean possesion across half back only which will always equate to less opportunities up forward.

Kouta, Houlihan, Bentick, Scotland, Stevens all have good ball winning ability, but simply can't run hard enough to create space going forward, or to man up going backward. This ability is the hallmark of modern football. I don't think our problems stem from a lack of effort, it's just that these blokes don't have this as a strength - they are much more suited to the way football was played 15+ years ago.

Not that i fully agree.... BUT.....

If this is the problem then its our Coach who should do something about it.
Clean out and move with the times, and get blokes who can play this style, or devise a game plan that suits the blokes you have....

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I know a little secret. And i'm not sharing.

...and we have the one player who can really break lines playing out of position in the back pocket

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Carlton - Nothing's changed
I still love you, oh, I still love you
Only slightly, only slightly less
Than I used to, my love

We don't have the players and the pace around the ground at present to provide Waite Fevola and our other forwards with the opportunities to kick a winning score.

We had no one with the pace to play on Krakouer and Tambling other than Simpson. Too quick and mobile for Carrazzo and Bentick and really no other option with McGrath out of the side. Lappin had a bad game and with Kane Johnson tagging Stevens we needed someone else to step up as a midfield runner and we just don't have anyone else at present.

Russell is only just starting his career and Walker showed dash but Houla and Kouta both get the ball out of the centre but you really don''t see them as running link players.

Good.

Let's trade the whole dammmn team for Chris Judd.

I get more excitement watching Chris Judd play these days than I do Carlton....except I must admit Marc Murphy's goal was dammn good.

Will keep watchin Carlton as long as Murphy and the youngsters keep getting game time.

Funny, though, i just can't watch most other teams these days if Carlton aren't involved.

1) fremantle - can't watch em under any circumstance...something about them. just don't like the players in that team at all.

2) north melbourne - they bore me. will never watch them unless playing carlton.

3) brisbane - won't watch them unless Aker is doing something. I know there are many stars in that team, but to me Aker is the only one that provides excitement.

West Coast, however, I will watch any time any day just to see Judd.
Imagine (i can dream) if Carlton had Judd before he gets too old and didn't have the overpriced hacks we have.

Trading rarely works anymore. There is no substitute for astute drafting and youth development. Lets get another 4-5 good youngsters this year and lay the platform for the future.

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Too Legit to quit.

Ok there were so many areas where we were terrible on Fri night, however I think really that if you had to pick and choose, it would have to be the following 2:

* not 1 effective centre clearance in over a half of footy (2nd & 3rd qtrs)
* not keeping the ball in the forward line and forcing a ball up, even though there was a pack

No point going into the individual mistakes, EG Stevens kicking to a 1 on 3 contest on the forward flank with 5mins to go, when we were 2 kicks behind, instead of passing to the unmarked Russell on the wing.

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"You're my boy(s), Bluuuee(s)..."

pretty sure our last goal of the 2nd quarter came from a Stevo/Kouta centre clearance. (just to be a nitpicker)

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!