We have covered this before and there are many threads on coach .. players and there is merit in the arguements on changing coach or maybe chaging just to get something new into the club. But Sadly changing coach still leaves a void on the field and maybe we can be critical of DP in not developing that or trading away what we had or retirements of many of or Leaders. The fact remains the club has by far the weakest On field leadership team in the competition. Yep we have our skill errors we have some game plans not being executed properly and maybe DP has made wrong decisions or maybe the players havnt been able to execute what DP has wanted to do.

All the games we have lost would have possibly been won if we had more presence on the field not saying they would have been but with more players able to show leadership on the field would vastly help a young list

Having players who can settle the team or encourage players when the wheels are falling off can turn the game around or at least stem the flow when suffering a smashing as happened with the pies on the weekend. Also Leadership or mature players can also rally or stem poor morale and the second half against the pies illustrated perfectly how easy the Blues fell out of the game and lost there way completely.

If we analise the leadership group and more importantly the second tier or players who can assist in assisting and being able to settle the team.

Whits - been a great leader but lacking support and has possibly been the only player to stand up. He directs players and also has been leading by example in season 2006 (hasnt always been the case)
Stevo - Much malighned and people have been questioning him but he does bust a gut runs all game and again lacks support and possibly also not helping his own game in the process but i have seen him work hard.
Yep he also does comunictae and yep shows frustration but we dont have much after Stevo and Whits

Having Stevo and Whits as the only on - Field leadership presence is way lower than any other team in the competition.

So who else are in the leadership group
Kouta - Captain but someone who just never looked comfortable as the captain and is a someone who looks like he is going through the motions. Really at a time when we needed Kouta to show far more leadership we dont see to much. Even to the point that he seems to be very Media shy but in general i dont we get the Presence we expect from Kouta especially in our current situation.
Lappin - On his day great player and is a one of our senior players but has never really displayed much in leadership and maybe thats the best thing for Lappo
French - Dont think he has been in form this year and havnt really seen much on field leadership from him buit maybe i just havnt seen anything
Fev - prob not in this group have seen him encourage players and also back up the kids but also fev is prone to his bad days also. He is improving though but wouldnt consider him as a player to lead based on his past indiscretions.

So not much there where else do we look.
The group which should have stepped up and have been at the club for 5-6 Years
Wiggins / bannister / Sporn / Prender / Magrath / Teague. These guys should all be in the middle group being so called mature bodies and players who have some game under there belt but none of them can even hold a permanent place in the team let alone be considered in the leadership group. Also they would be more focused on holding there place than worrying about another player in the team.

The next wave - There maybe will be players to emerge from this group but not ready as yet as they still need to improve there consistancy and still need leadership from above themselves and its a catch-22 to speed these guys leadership they need to have leadership around them.
Players in this group - Waite / Thornton / Bentick / Carrots / Simmo / Maclaren / Houla / Walks ect

Then New Kids
Well MM will be a star and has leadership writtem on him but still needs guidance and help himself and we will have to wait.

Players who are looking lost because of no leadership
- JR / Santanta / Kennedy / Betts and any other kid that comes into the side. These guys literally are being thrown the wolves we want to play them but having only 2 players who can help and have enough on the plate means they have no gudance or support.

In a normal balanced side there would be a mix of 5-6 Senior Players who would be the on field leaders ... mix with that another 6-8 Players who can perform on there own and support the leaders and the younger kids. but in the Blues we have 2 players who are on field leaders and then ....... nothing.

Go thorugh any other list you will be able to identify several on field leaders and a mix of senior / Mid level players who play suppirt and can assist with the kids.

Now this is a huge inbalance in the Blues team and yep and DP can be responsible in not develpoping the list or getting more of the middle players invoved in mentoring. We have more leadership in the Bullants and a far better balance with halford / Diggers / Frankie - Combine with Prender / Longmuir / Wiggins / banister ect all who feel comfortable in this side and can help the younger kids. Prob why they are so dominant this year.

Anyway I agree DP has made errors and maybe the message is not getting through or development is not there ...but it wouldnt matter what coach we had the coach needs players to help the coach out and be able to encourage / push / direct / identify changes in the game ect.

Whits and Stevo done okay but there should be another 6-8 players helping them and supporting them Especially our Captain and at the moment we havnt got that.

As i said this has been covered but compare the blues with any other team and you will find that Blues fail dismally in this area.

Great suff Wolfe.

There is a leadership shortage. That's why players such as Stevens, Lappin and Whitnall are so important to this team.

These players give direction and criticism. They also give us hope.

Imagine us without Whitnall out there on Saturday. Ask any of the players in the backline or the forwardline about Whitnall's value. Both ends of the field require his ability to read the game unfolding, and follow his directions. They are all ears.

The kids will remember Saturday's experience vividly. They will remember the day when the scores are close and they need some inspiration to get them over the line. Where will they turn to? They will know that Whitnall is there, and they will remember his performance, and it's the faith in his ability to win the contest and to guide the players towards the win.

Leaders give the kids direction, hope and faith. So given, as Wolfe presents, a lack of leadership, these kids must be down in hope and faith. We bneed leaders to step up.

Wolfe you mention Prenders in the group that should be delivering in the leadership stakes. He is in the leadership group and he has the respect of the players, so I wouldn't put him in the group you have, I would be giving him an opportunity to show the kids some direction with his leadership. We need all the leaders we can muster on the field, and a leadership development program (as mentioned earler in the season on another thread).

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

actually I think this is something that Denis has got wrong (according to me).

Right at the start Denis chose the wrong leadership players. Old players close to the use by date. He should have taken a risk, Gone for Lance (sorry Synners) or Fev or, hell even Livo anyone that was going to be around and playing their best football for the next 5 or more years.

Instead he went with the players who had respect/awe - I think hoping this would get those players on side and would also set up a control group within the list.

A team needs a leadership group to take the kids in/teach them/nuture and guide them. We do not have that at all. 'Cept maybe (*just maybe) Fev at times.

Maybe the kids are better of in the bullants where there is leadership and guidance. Grow them strong their, find our future leaders and wait til they are ready.

In hindsight it was the wrong way to go. Now we are berefit of leadership. Now we have a gaping hole when the game gets tough we whimper....

Probably easier for Denis at Nth with Carey and co. He didn't develop that side of them perhaps. And was lucky? Not this time. This time it needed to be developed and not left to chance or the older playing group who are not leaders.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Yet we have one of the clubs greatest captains of all time in Stephen Kernahan at the club. Does he help them out?? Do the players seek him out for guidance??

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There's so much I could say...

but its out on the ground. See Sticks was a natural onfield leader (have no idea what he is like off the field - though Synners has some strong views on this - we have none of these ('cept maybe Lance, maybe Stevens) and that is what we lack. The older players to step up when its needed most and with a player like Stevo it would help if he got rested occassionally so he had the energy to step up.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Just getting slightly off the topic and onto cricket; it seemed to be the case over many years that Australia would pick the best player as captain, whereas England would go for the best leader but not necessarily the best player (Mike Brearley would be an example of this).

Based on recent years, Australia seems to have had the most succesful approach, but it woild be fair to arguethat appointing Kouta was an example of the "Australian" approach that maybe has not worked

Is Kouta our best player?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

he probably was at the time of his appointment - unless u rotate captaincy every year like st kilda or sack the captain due to lack of performance he is likely to remain captain for his career

see I wonder about the that. Wjhy not take a risk and appoint someone younger - not neccessarily the best yet - but someone who could grow into it.

Hell even take a risk and choose Fev or Lance.

Kouta is not a leader. A leader (in football) must be accountable plus we needed someone who would stay around for at least 5 years and be able top connect to the young kids. Fev connects. Does Kouta? Did Ratten?



Maybe a risk back then would mean we'd have a solid core group of leaders now.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Bondiblue appologise prob didnt explain what i meant before



In regards to regards to prender who was maybe still in the Leadership group but i was more focusing on a group of player like Wiggins / bannister / Sporn / Prender / Magrath / Teague who in most teams these 5-6 Year or 24- 26 Year range are usually the second tier leadership group or can at least assist the senior leaders. In our case i dont think any of the mentioned players would be permanent senior players and possibly provide leadership in the Bullants but in the seniors there only priority would be in helping themselves dont think they would worry to much about any other player as they would be doing what they could to get themselves a game.

So in this situation we have only 2 odd Senior leaders in whits / Stevo ... then a gap to players who arnt ready in Waite / Bentick / thornton ect and from what i can see none of these players are ready yet and also they dont have much assistance from above

I think youre born with REAL leadership.
You can improve aspects of leadership... but the truly great leaders are just special at leading. They dont always have to be the best but they have a knack at getting others to follow them to where they want the group to go.

Were really struggling with this from the coach down currently.
On the flipside i do really believe we have a few kids with leadership skills on the rise.

I spoke about Murphy and his leadership skills last year and how he will be important.

you cant underestimate that type of character and its worth at a football club over a generation.
Coming through the draft this year there are also individuals that have the potential to dominate a clubs landscape for a decade.
We have to pull out all stops to make sure we can land one of those types. in the draft to help Murphy and Walker.. or he might even surpass them in the leadership stakes.

One i have heard about from a respected recruiter from another club is Sellar. From what i was told "He is not only a fantastic player who will dominate, but also a player that will dominate the landscape of a football club in the way Sticks did for his period of time as a player.. very impressive character"He also went on to say that there were more like that in this years draft... so hopefully we will be in the box seat to choose the best of the best...I have full confidence that our people will again make the right choice with whomever they see will best serve us in every capacity.

Were on the way up ... 3 or 4 years we will be like an african artichoke .. all the rubbish will be stripped away and we will be left with the heart

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

3/4 years.

@#$%&! my kid will be 16!!!! I wonder if he will still go to the football. He'll have few good memories and a lot of shit ones.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

He won the B&F last year & has performed better than anyone else currently at the club over his career.

Agree with this and it's what I have said for ages. It is also the reason why I don't understand why people expect Kouta to be a decent captain. He was not born with "real leadership" as you put it and quite clearly is no leader of men. Yet he cops it for not being a good captain? Admittedly Kouta could look a bit more interested and perhaps more vocal but I find it hard to criticise him over his captaincy because he's just not a leader! I think it's more a case of Kouta being the most experienced and arguably at the time he was appointed, the best player at the club, so we bestowed the captaincy on him for this reasons and not because he oozed leadership potential. In my opinion Lance should be captain of Carlton and I almost feel sorry for Kouta as it is not his fault that he is not a great captain.

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

I agree the best up coming leader in the club at the moment is Murphy ..... and then not much else

I agree the coaching side is lacking there

I do think that Whits and stevo are shouldering the lack of any help on the field and also shouldering a lack of leadership from the Coaches as well .. least we got TD into help here

But you need a group of leaders not just a single individual
Also some experience will also be good for us too..

If our list has within 2 years Whits / Stevo / Fev ?...... as the senior experience combined with Murphy and hopefully a few more we will be better off.

Walker has some leadership qualities
Bentick ditto and maybe even more so.
Kennedy has them.
Smith has leadership qualities.
Flint has leadership qualities.


Theyre all kids but all of those players will bring something to the team on leadership stakes.


BB2005.. i think people get angry with Kouta because he doesnt even try to lead... he just goes through the motions but he wants to be Capt... he did put his hand up.
We know he is no leader.. but at least attempt to lead ....

Hes the first to give up each week.. hands go up.. stops trying and it just filters through the team.

You just cant have that .... its negligent.!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

yeah he won our B&F so did Teague and McKernan.

Sorry but for mine Kouta hurts the side as much as he helps it. Not his fault, injuries have robbed him and he cannot chase, accelerate and turn fast. His player runs off, our kids give chase and the whole thing is out of whack.

See Voss chase the other day, and the game a few weeks ago? he can't run, can't catch anyone, but @#$%&! he chases.

Ever seen Kouta chase like that? Now this is not trying to bag Kouta, just a reality of being old now and having a knee that's stuffed.

Voss still inspires even if he isn't there best.

Kouta's inspiration was always based his athletic performance and he does not have that.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

All these kids have leadership but need help themselves before they can properly contribute to the team in that area
Walker has some leadership qualities
Bentick ditto and maybe even more so.
Kennedy has them.
Smith has leadership qualities.
Flint has leadership qualities.

Add to the list Murph has more than all of the above but will have to wait 3-4 years unless he can do a cousins lol

But these possible young leaders all need help still at the moment and they need someone to help them out.. only 2 players are doing that.

I agree kouta is a player going through the motions the team would be better if he wasnt the captain because if the Captain dosnt have passion or heart or as Synbad says gives up why should the rest of the team bother ... so all i hope is he takes a break and Whits and Stevo are the acting captains at least the players will be following the players giving a stuff

I mentioned Murphy earlier.
I was talking about a future leadership group .

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

yep i know Synbad was comenting on the suggested Leadership group of the future that need to be developed but are IMO not ready as yet.

Possibly should have used the quote function but always muck it up lol