I think its a strong sign of bad-faith

I'm more worried about appearing to endorse a club by staying with them, when I really really want change to occur

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Love Cricket? Love me

Now that sounds like my kinda board

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#DonTheStash

Abso-bloody-lutley correct !!!

If all the Cammo petition idea does is to get more people to focus on the coaching issues at the club then it will have succeeded in it's aims. If there are enough people taking notice and agreeing that there needs to be an urgent review, then Cammo has done the club and it's a supporters a great service.

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GROUND ZERO + DRAFTING YOUTH = SUSTAINED SUCCESS

please dont misunderstand me, i was completly behind the last petition to oust the board, wasnt to keen on leaving OO as IMO that has cuased a few of the problems we now currently face, but alas, what is done is done.

what was shitting me was how everyone was quick to get stuck into the cammo for using a petition as it was bad for the club, yet where all for the petition when it suited their arguments, you can not have it both ways.

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Got to love the stare Down by Setanta on Llyod

I think they'd be saying this particular partition isn't the best. Not that all partitions are on the nose.

But to be honest, the more I think about it the more I couldn't care lass about cammo & his clipboard!

Not a bad bloke though

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#DonTheStash

How can change ever be initiated, with the status quo, if people arent prepared to agitate?

For those who don't believe in agitiation, for all of the good reasons you have all stated, how then do you propose for change to take place?

Do you believe that any incumbant to anything will change for change sake, if they believe that what they are doing is correct.

Do i assume that all of those against agitiation are happy with the performances, little or failing skills, poor body language, most turn overs of any club, it goes on and on.

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Go BLues

seconded

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Love Cricket? Love me

I won't be signing a petition asking for the coach to be replaced. Some members feel that way and that is their right.

I think that with up to 7 kids in the team each week that the coach and MC are doing the best they can to fast track our kids, give them experience and also try to be competitive. A difficult balancing act.

We expect a lot of our team and they haven't delivered but I think the biggest mistake the coach and club have made is that they haven't came out and said we are going to struggle, we are playing more kids each week than we should, and we're going to try and rebuild our list as fast as possible. Our list has potential in the longer term but it's going to be a rocky road getting there.

Inexperience will mean our performance will be inconsistent and that for team balance we will have to play some older more experienced players and some kids will only be given a taste but the long term aim is to have a core of youngsters for the future.

I think that if they had come out and said that we were going to struggle then perhaps it would have had a negative effect on both sponsorship and members and given our financial position the club couldn't afford for anyone to say anything. However I think it may have stopped the complaints and disillusionment caused by our performances but maybe trying to get our finances right is more important than performance in the short term.

The club can acknowledge but choose to ignore supporter discontent knowing that as the team performance starts to improve next year and our finaces start to get back to an even keel then the supporter discontent will disappear.

IIRC most of the better performing clubs only play a couple of youngsters each week and yet on any match day 1/3 of our team are inexperienced. Leigh Matthews is regarded as a great coach and his methods not too old or out of date yet even he can't conjure success with a team of youngsters. Look at the Crows who I rate very highly and see how many youngsters they play each week and how they blood their kids.

Bentick Betts Carrazzo Fisher Kennedy Murphy Russell Simpson and Walker have not yet even played that bench mark of experienced AFL players ie. 50 games and yet most of them are considered regulars in our team. When we had a strong list I think they would have spent more time in the reserves and had stronger bodies before debuting and wouldn't be expected to be driving forces in the side. They would also have been used in a variety of positions and expected to return to the Bullants when their performances dropped and become regulars in the team in their 4th year.

I think we may also add Bower Hartlett Raso and Blackwell to the list of inexperienced players that will be in the senior team during this season. If they are all in the one team together that would mean more than half the side are kids in AFL experience. No wonder their confidence skills and decision making detiorate when the opposition puts hard physical pressure on them.

With those kids and McLaren Waite Thornton Fevola Scotland Stevens Whitnall and French we are starting to get a core group together for the future. Plus a couple of rookies and Setanta who could make the grade and it is not all doom and gloom. It's not rosy and we certainly don't have 35players . Still don't have the depth that IMO we need but I am reasonably happy with that group. I think that most clubs hope to add 2-3 new players to the senior team mix each year out of the draft and their rookies. Given where we were when Pagn arrived most pundits thought it would take at least 5 years to rebuild with draft selections. Take out the first two years due to our penalties at the draft and we are still only half way there.

IMO if we can add at least another 2 players with pace and skill to the midfield and another young tall big backman then the team may start that gradual rise. Another 2-3 players the next year and we would be right back in the mix. I don't think you can criticise the club for not trying different options or turning over players particularly since we have turned over 40 players since Dennis arrived and you can bet their will be a few more exits at the end of this season.

If I could paraphrase from some of the media's pre-season previews we were expected to languish down the bottom of the ladder once again and be lucky to win 7 matches. Most of us were hoping for a lot better but perhaps our optimism outweighed the logic we shoudl have used.

i think the difference between we the carlton supporters who follow this team very closely and atsutely (in most cases) and the so-called media experts, is the fact that we can see quite clearly some shocking errors of judgement being made, and the fact that there is a poor mindset spreading like a cancer through the club. yes they all said the side would struggle and finich bottom, and perhaps they are right. but at the end of the day, i continue to hear the press talk up blokes like deluca. if anyone who follows this team week in week out still believes that deluca is going to take the club forward, they've got rocks in their heads. yet he still gets wrapped up by 'those in the know'. these same guys say a coach is only as good as his cattle. well ask yourself, is this coach getting his cattle up to their full potential? i don't believe so.

we play a game style that defies logic at times. we play players in positions and styles that do not realistically give us any chance of actually winning the game. they hold back the flood gates (at times), but do little else. we bring kids in, and give them 20 minutes of dead time for a game. is this helping their development? i don't believe it is.

the petition is a gauge only. no it will not decide the outcome, but it surely will point out that there is ever increasing discontent amongst the supporters of this great club. why has there been a drop of nearly 7,000 members since last year?? maybe there should be a little market research by the club to see what is going on. find out why they are not re-signing. at this rate, i am sure that there will be even more disgruntled members dropping off come season 2007. the club is on its knees and as the tyrant pointed out, we may only be just approaching rock bottom.

i agree that further change needs to happen. i don't know that round 6 is the best time for it to change, but come seasons end if there aren't some significant improvements across the club (at all levels) there is going to be as big an outcry as there was at the end of season 2002.

Agree Amazonstud
I will always support Carlton have now for over thirty years. Yes i have been spoilt by past success and always expect the team at the top half of the ladder.
Regardless where the team is now the team has given me enough joy for a lifetime and will support Carlton when in need. Hey if you do not like the product 'Carlton' there are 15 other teams to support, Carlton needs loyal supporters. Yes i am one of them.
This does not mean i still don't want success, i demand it.

GO BLUES!

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Spoilt by the past. But patient for the future!!!

To all those who downplay Pagan's two Premierships as coach with the fact he had Carey as a player, and the insinuation that anyone one could have coached them to a flag, let me remind you all of St Kilda's plight.

They have an acknowledged list of champions and a dud coach who can't get them past a prelim.

Perhaps the passengers on the Titanic just needed to implement a little civil disobedience in protest that the bridge had been so derilect in their duty ...


... hang on, if memory serves me correctly, they did when it came to the evacuation.

Unfortunately, the Titanic still sank.

this club is in such a state, at all levels, that would it surprise you to know that they aren't even following up with people who were members lastyear but haven't taken up a membership this year. I received my inital renewal information, but did not act on it. I haven't had one single piece of correspondence from the club since! Buy a stupid $100 magazine subscription for a year, then don't renew it and you know what will happen? You will get letters asking you to renew for the next 2 years! Perhaps that partly explains why membership is down (not to mention inept performance on the field)!

Have you renewed yet or are you waiting until the club contact you so you can feel special?

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Could not agree more. Supporters turning on the coach? We are fast becoming a rabble of a club. When we were at our strongest we used to laugh at clubs like that and now we are turning into one. We need to support the club no matter how good or bad we are going.

Denis Pagan is one of the best coaches going around. Let's stick with him as he is the best person for the job. There is not other coach that would be able to help us in the position that we are currently in but we will improve and we will be better.

Timing Baz, timing. Nows not the time. Later in the season, yes, but not now.

trubluebrad - you are totally missing the point. Hate to disappoint you mate, but football is simply business now. The club moans about membership being down, expecting the dollars to roll in the door. Guess what - there's competition for peoples money out there these days. They can't even be bothered chasing up on lapsed memberships? Please!! Its not about me feeling special, or anything like that. The management at the club is just plain lazy by the looks of it! I spent 3 years running one of Carltons interstate supporter groups, and i know how difficult it was to get people to write you a cheque for, in reality, very little in return. However, the least they could do is stop moaning about it and actually get on with signing people,particualrly people who have opened their wallets for the club before.

And to answer your question, no, I have not signed up as a member this year, nor will I be. I have been living abroad now for 6 years and up until now have continued my membership, however, i will not be renewing it this year. I vote with my money - and this management are getting no more of it to waste.

Sorry mate, I know a few people here have stated that they wouldn't renew unless the club called them. I just wondered if you were of that view.

I can partially understand your stand as you're living abroad and get no value from being a member...other than knowing the money goes to the club.

As for the management not getting any more money to waste...it seems as though we need every dollar we can get at the moment, just to stay alive until we can get a board which wont waste the money.

There are many people unhappy with the board, and many ways of showing that. Everyone is different and are free to voice their displeasure how they see fit.

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"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

Here it is

http://www.sackpagan.com./survey.php?SURVEY_ID=12

KillCammo.com