Was this the start of the Walls For President campaign????

Only if he gets his own TV show where he can plug Carlton sponsors....

Just as I expected

Question for 4th Chicken.

Q) In light of the fact that Paul Bower is injured, does this mean we shouldn't have drafted him with pick #20 in last years draft?

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There is no footy god

I guess it all depends on whether there was ever a rumour in footy circles that he's done the same injury in the past?

You have it partly right - it would depend on whether he has a history of being injury prone in the past. It wouldnt depend on rumour and it wouldnt have to be the same injuries.

There are other differences between the hartlett/bower selection
- bower was a defender and we are developing as a defender
- hartlett was a forward that we are retraining to become a defender
- also the bower selection was 1 yr later - in theory we should have greater depth to our list and as such we may be better positioned to take a risk on players within the draft. Hartletts year was our first opportunity to draft in the 2nd round for several yrs -given that our next live selection was the 4th round due to f/s commitment (possibly later due to trades?) we really needed to minimise our risk profile.

But silly me, I forgot some posters are immune to questioning/criticism (especially if they have inside 'links') - irrespective of the rubbish that some may post on occasssion - afterall, someone might get all huffy and we might get another training 'sugercoaters' backlash


Perhaps if my username was 4thsheep instead... baaaaaa...

na I reckon you've got the right animal

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I'll use some of your logic chicken. Judd slipped down to 3 because of a suspect shoulder (likely to be injury prone). Hodge who was number 1 and physically sound missed a fair bit of football in his first two years due to OP. I could imagine what Hawthorn supporters were saying in the first 24 months of Hodge's career as Judd was carving every team?
I think it is fair to criticise Carlton's recruiting record but making early judgement calls on players that have been at the club for 18 months is not reasonable.
My view is that kids drafted in 2002 and prior can be reasonably judged as they have had enough time and opportunity to understand what is required to make it in the AFL. Any kid drafted after that date, the jury should still be out.

Hodge OP history
Ball OP history
Judd 2 shoulder recos.

Wernt playing the percentages..(recruiters)


How the @#$%&! were those blokes taken one , two and three...????

It should have been.... #1 Pollack #2 Sampi #3 X Clarke

Im with you 4th chicken....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

No fish here today chookman. Might as well pack up your tackle and wander back to the hen house.

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

The Hartlett story is an interesting one, started forward, then thrown back to defence by Rehn. Probably more noticed for his 8 goal game but had a whole season deep in defence:

http://carltonfc.com.au/default.asp?pg= ... eid=198047

We're all allowed an opinion - you've expressed yours, we're allowed to express ours. Dont get all sooky because people disagree with you. I dont think you're right with the injury comments. hart's knee was a standalone injury that cost him much of the first year. His hammies have done him this year. Isolated examples.

And I see Synbad's comments and completely agree. When you're bottom do you go conservative or try as quick as you can to fill some huge gaps? Notwithstanding the injury comments, he had the size, form etc. that we were crying out for. Hartlett has been very unfortunate and needs a good run of game sbefore we can assess anything.

Russell has played a handful of games and the more he plays the better he will get. they need to persevere with him and young blackwell as they will make it. Judds adn Riewoldts come around rarely

Imagine if Simmo was dispensed with after his first couple of seasons? Wiggins is starting to show his true potential at last, we may have to cut out losses with sporn and livingston. Harlett must be given an opportunity to play in the seniors too.

Jack Worrall - what success story?

Walker - played out of position - and rarely racks up more than 20 possessions. Should play on the wing or as an attacking midfielder... instead he tags players. no real success there.

Fisher - no real success there. ok he is a good contested mark - but due to injury and other factors he just has potential - hasn't delivered a game as far as i am aware where he has kicked 4 or more goals. Even a player that most supporters despise - justin davies - has achieved this feat.

Simpson - has shown improvement and can run like the wind.


but really - our team is dodgy and will be dodgy for many years in large part due to poor recruitment and selections.


contrast us with port adelaide who nearly always recruit well.



I agree with Walls about playing jordan russell - give him 4 games in a row. let's see if he is capable.

The best points that Walls makes are around:
i) the assistants - whenever i see these guys walk out late to another huddle at 1/4 or 3/4 time i just feel we are behind before we even start! Keep TD! DP we are stuck with. TE and TL can go - have had their time and just not enough smarts for me.
ii) recruitment - if i hear Pagan say at the end of this year "I leave recruitment up to Wayne and his people" (LIKE HE HAS SAID EVERY YEAR AT CARLTON!!!!) i will scream!!!! I don't care if other clubs play it that way - we cannot. If Pagan can't drag himself away from the horses to personally have a MAJOR say in who we recruit then we are down the toilet faster than it appears now!!!!

Friend of yours chookman

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

I'm still amused by those people who think the recruitment people actually make the final decisions on who to pick and the coach is just a passive bystander. The coach makes the final decision - especially a control freak like Denis. Denis' "I leave recruitment up to Wayne and his people" is just more Pagan bullshit so he can side-step the blame if the draftees don't pan out.

re: Walls ...like his work and he usually talks common sense but tends to state the obvious in many cases and he isnt telling us what we dont already know..

re : Hartlett.....I think he can play and should be perservered with....has the right dimensions to be a good KPP and I was happy with his work in the wizard cup...injuries are his only concern but you wouldnt be throwing Kosi on the scrapheap due to his injury problems and its only fair we keep faith with a younger player like Hartlett and try and get him fitter....
As for his draft selection and position in the draft...fair enough..he was talked up as a KPP and most of the media outlets had him high enough up in the mocks drafts to make his selection a reasonable decision...we needed tall KPP and he fitted the criteria...play both ends of the park and is a thumping kick....all those areas were we needed..cant argue with his selection based on his strengths.


re: Jordan Russell....until the WC game you could question his selection but I think he has shown enough to suggest he has a future and that the modern running game will suit his style....much like Kade Simpson he needs some pasta, spuds and some weights but I think he has the running power and skill level to make it and the alternate selection was Chris Egan who deosnt impress me at all.....
Russells selection reminds me of what Collingwood have done with Pendlebury....taken a gamble on a very skilled, slightly undercooked player who they intend simmering for a while and getting some toughness and footy nous into ....Russell should have been played earlier than he has been and I think he is slightly behind in development due to conservative selection policies which have been a trademark of carlton when developing youth.....

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

Hardly been sooky with people disagreeing with me - I think I've stated my points clearly and relatively concisely. I havent stated the selection as wrong outright - just queried whether the selection was appropriate given our position at the time (IF there reports of injury concerns were true - as stated in the original post). If the injury concerns pre-draft werent true then the I've got no real problems with the hartletts selection - however as I've stated previously, if there were genuine concerns then irrespective of whether hartlett then goes on to play 300 games the selection (removes the hindsight equation) would not have been appropriate given our list/drafting position if for example hartlett has multiple hamstring injuries in the past (especially if within the one season).

The only 'issue' I've had with this thread was cazzessmans ridiculous use of footydraft.com to defend the non-selection of rosa and pearce (ie footydraft ranked them at 61 and 69 respectively). Obviously he would have had to look up the website to find the exact ranking numbers - and in doing so it would have been blatantly obvious that footy draft didnt have much of a clue that year.

From footydraft.com
ben eckerman @ 8 (was pick 51)
deluca @ 9 (was 35)
roury kirky @ 12 (was rookie pick 2)
ben sharp @ 14 (rookie pick 9)
heath grundy @ 16 (rookie pick 42)
alan toovey @ 17 (undrafted?)
ryan bain @ 18 (was rookie pick 11)

ie
- 2 of the top 10 picks ended up being the last picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds
- 4 of the predicted 1st round picks ended up being rookie listed and one might have been undrafted

also - ryan jackson @ 25 in the 2004 draft (our hartlett pick) when he didnt get selected until rookie pick 1 this year

Knowing the above, how can the draft selections be defended by the statement 'oh but footydraft.com didnt rate them' even be considered? - recruiting is never going to be an exact science but at least be prepared to admit that you can get it wrong on ocassion (not necessarily specific players but perhaps selection criteria) - or are we going to go down the path of elliot, collo and pagan where its never a mistake on their part because the fault obviously lies elsewhere

Good news Cazz,

from what is being posted here I think I can tell you what you need to be looking for in this year's draft. This will do for a start:

a Judd
a Cox
a Hall
a Brown
a Ball
a Hodge
and a Riewoldt

Oh... and they have to be able to make an immediate contribution. None of this waiting three or four years for them to learn how to play the game and come good. Now go and get them for us my good man

you sugar coating training watcher with your
Insider knowledge
How dare you be positive