My attitude is the Club is finally showing some balls by saying you want them you come and get them... and we want this and only this is exchange.

It sends a message to all the the Club is bigger than the individuals. Let them both go in the PSD and take there chances. Hope they get there joy waiting there for the unknown.

Sometimes its better to be firm and seemingly lose out that to accept being screwed over by other clubs.

Losing these two might not get us anything special but we might just get lucky and find something special late in the draft.

I'd rather we took our chances if we had to.

Leave sooks and please take your warm milk containers , bibs and dummies with you. Oh well

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I know a little secret. And i'm not sharing.

In the NFL system (which is drive by the Players association), Russel would be regarded as a "Restricted Free Agent".

Any club who wishes to acquire a RFA during the free agency period, is required to surrender their draft pick from the round in which the player was originally drafted... That would be handy

Wouldn't mind designating Thornton as our Franchise Player... He would be given a one-year contract worth the average of the top 5 players (in $$ terms) at his position (Fletcher, Barry, etc)...

Where is the relevance, you ask? There is none, but it has as much place as some of the trade suggestions that get posted here...

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter" - Winston Churchill.

Why would you redraft Thornton.....500K in his first year on a front ended contract for a player who will give a half arsed performance because he doesnt want to be there...lets show some balls and do what Port did with Stevens..let him go and give a kid his position who wants to be at the club....
If we redraft him on his terms then he wins.........

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

I don't think that Port actually values Russell. I think they value Gibbs and are using Russell to attempt to leverage a trade for the no.1 pick. If we're willing to trade it, they'll give us close to fair terms. If not, they'll screw us on Russell. That's my suspicision anyway.

So if we do a bad deal with the Hawks over Thornton just to free up our PSD pick to target Russell, Port will turn around and say "oh well, we weren't that interested in him anyway". But we know that the Hawks value Thornton cause they've offered him $1m over three years.

We should keep the pressure on the Hawks and insist on a deal involving pick 6 for Thornton, or we will re-draft him. Take a bad deal from Port for Russell if it comes down to it.

with you there crawler. Gibbs > Russell. Rather lose Russell for nothing than cough up Pick 1

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"Who discovered we could get milk from cows, and what did he think he was doing at the time?" Billy Connolly

Port are'nt using Russel to leverage pick 1. Carlton are not giving up pick 1 full stop and other clubs know this.

I agree with you though that we shouldn't do a bad deal on Thornton just to be able to do a deal on Russel. What I was suggesting is do a good deal on Thornton but get it done with enough time, allowing us to do a deal on Russel, or threaten to pick him up in the psd.

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Number 17 - come on down!

Why do you begrudge people leaving the club and then at the same time trying to get other players to leave other clubs? It's hypocritical is it not?

Players generally leave a club for a couple of reasons.

1) Money
2) They don't like the environment they are in

I suspect for Russell, it's the 2nd.

We looked after players like Kernahan, Motley, Bradley. Have we looked after players like Russell?

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

I agree..... I don't blame Russell or Thornton one bit.. and out lack of leaders means hte playing group isn't enough to get blokes to stay.

I just seriously hope lessons are learned from this and that they're just collateral damage from change

(ie, Pagan is sacked)

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Love Cricket? Love me

Wonder if our great onfield leader is working away feverishly behind the scenes trying to convince these guys to stay or whether he's too busy ballroom dancing and helping out the ACB with the Ashes promotions?

_________________
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

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end of message

It is the young leaders who I would of thought would be the ear of these guys. Simmo is the perfect role model for Russell as many have said before. Simmo developed over the years, had problems along the way, but stuck at it and earnt fourth in the B&F plus a call up to the Aussie Side.

I know it shouldn't be on the shoulders of the younger leaders, but what better example to set to show what our future leadership will be about.

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Mjonc signing off at 8888

There have been rumours on this site almost since Russell was drafted that he was homesick so I don't begrudge him wanting to head, home, but I would hate to end up with nothing for him.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

In all honesty...

if (as has been reported here) your coach stands up in a Board Meeting, and claims that a fair part of the reason we claimed a spoon in 2006 is because of you - then what would you want to do? Some personalities would say 'stuff the coach - I'll stick it up him', but from all reports JR is a more fragile personality than that. I don't think we can blame him for seeking out an environment which is more suited to him. In fact, if we get the number 23 pick then I'll say good luck, and hope that his career goes well - because comes across as a pretty decent young chap.

I'll say f#$k off, thanks for nothing ... and watch out next time we play you because there'll be a prize for the first person that can knock you into tomorrow if you ever bother putting your head over the ball you ungrateful little sh!t

... and good luck.

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In WADA we trust

Pagan said that a fair part of why we won the spoon ins 2006 was due to JR underperforming?

or more players in general

Well it sure wasn't my @#$%&! fault

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end of message

we will get Jacques Schiessen for Russell.

Hasta la vista JR. Enjoy Hindley Street you bogan.

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I support Carlton, Fulham and I'm an accountant - my mate calls me a 3 time loser.

Fair comment...

_________________
"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

Good comment Dukes, let's hope the Carlton hiearchy repeat that word for word.

Although in fairness the go home factor is important. Maybe Russell should talk to the o'Hailpin boys about sacrificing for your sport.

As for it all being Pagan's fault. Does he have to play every young player every week in order to be doing a decent job? Players can take several years to develop and Russell has a few years to go if he is going to make it. He could start by learning to watch the ball when he is marking by himself. When he has learnt that in the VFL he could bitch about game time. To be honest I'm getting sick of whinging little prima donnas who reckon 200k+ is not good enough and expect to be courted like rock stars. The club is probably making plenty of mistakes but how about focussing on the moral cowardice of these disloyal self centred prima donnas. i reckon Russell's favourite singer is James Blunt.

PS I'm willing to take this all back if he stays.

Some of you people make me sick. And you'll probably call me soft for it.

I went after Camporeale, Kouta etc. because the wages they were earning was ridiculous. For the amount they were being paid, they had to do more for their pay.

With Russell, it has nothing to do with pay. Some of you would probably not have the courage to cop the sh*t that some of the players have.

Why don't I say that you people who are calling these younger players these ridiculous epithets that you're f***** losers and w*****s and whatever, you'll say that I wouldn't say it to your face. But would you say it to these players' faces?

The kid is 19, Setanta was 21 or 22 - you can't use that as an argument.

Why don't some of you show some decency? Some of you don't deserve to barrack for the CFC. If you're going to criticise someone, do it decently.

_________________
"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky