Listening to SEN this morning, seems Andy Maher had been to an off the record briefing with Smorgon and Malouf for influential Carlton people. He did not want to reveal anything, and I think he seemed embarrassed as Tim Watson brought it up.

This with the fact that people on TC and CSC getting calls from the presisdent and coach as reply to letters, I think the Board might have gone into election mode, i.e. they might think a challenge is coming. Interesting times ahead…..

Influential people wont file behind Malouf and Smorgon you can bet on that...

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This is all pretty interesting. I was going to start a thread about it but I might do it here.

People are intimating on these boards that it is coming. A rival ticket is being formed consisting of influential and cashed-up Carlton people.

Synbad said that one of the first things that they will do is pay off the AFL loan, cutting the strings that currently tie us to Demetriou's fingertips.

It is also thought that the new board will pay out and terminate Pagan's contract.

There are rumblings that this will happen within weeks.


So.. -- is it going to be messy?

One would think that the new board would act swift and decisively to sack Pagan.

Do they then publicly interview prospective coaches similar to the process that St Kilda undertook?

Surely they can't afford to simply appoint someone in the head role without undertaking due process -- it would look inept and 'mateish' and would be a major mistake.

You would think with this going on it will be very public and the new board will have its work cut out minimising the negative publicity that it will cause.

Also, what will this mean for recently appointed assistant coaches Ratten & Crosisca?


Has anybody else been thinking about all this?

Time to play the waiting game I guess.

If Pagan goes Crosisca will also leave or be sacked. I cannot see them keeping anyone associated with Pagan. Could be one of the shortest coaching jobs

The days of appointing coaches in this manner at VFL/AFL level are over, if my memory serves me correct we have never actually conducted what is a proper selective process for a coach:

1965: Ron Barassi (obviously an inspired choice)
1972: John Nicholls (the obvious heir apparent)
1975: Ian Thorogood (the accidental tourist)
1977: Ian Stewart (the cross dresser)
1978: Alex Jesaulenko (the reluctant hero)
1980: Peter Jones (reward for loyalty)
1981: David Parkin (an inspired choice)
1986: Robert Walls (the return of the prodigal son)
1989: Alex Jesaulenko (Back to the Future)
1991: David Parkin (Back to the Future II)
2001: Wayne Brittain (the annointed one)
2003: Denis Pagan (poached from North - in order to save the board)

I will bow to other more notable historians around the club but not one of these selections were done with a robust selection process - Carlton have always headhunted a coach and never really cast a wide net over suitable candidates and selected the best one.

I think its time we finally did this.

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Winston Churchill

Surely Malouf should not be involved in any "electioneering", being the CEO. If so, he deserves to be sacked

Indeed, Agro.

While we all laugh at Rod "I can't believe it's not" Butterssss and his wanky talk about processes, at least there is some sort of structured process that happens at The Aints, and if knee-jerk reactions continue to happen at Carlton, we won't get any better. And that includes a knee-jerk sacking of Pagan.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

I caught the end of that, at about 8:50 and it sounded like Malouf was talking about doing things the right way and having another lean year before we move forward...

he said that we will have about a $1,000,000 loss this year that was predicted, so it's no suprise.

He also said that they were hoping to be at a nuetral balance by the end of next year or half way into 08' to coincide with the teams return to success on the field.

He sounded abit shaky at times, but generaly confident about the whole process...

It sounds like they have a plan of sorts going on

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My concern is twofold:

1) The original plan the board anounced when getting into power was a three year plan. At the end we were supposed to be cash neutral. This was then pushed out to 4 years. Now that is being pushed out to 5 to 5 and a half years.
2) The whole plan seems to revolve around the club being successful again and thus via increased membership, etc. I'd like to see some creative programs designed to get us to at least cash neutral during our worst on field times. It's the best (and only?) way to ensure our long-term survival.

Revisionist history once again.

Pagan was on a list of a number of candidates at the time ... Wallace, Eade, Pagan, etc. As a 2 time premiership coach Pagan was THE outstanding candidate available and we got him. Thats what boards do ... decide ont he best candidate and get him. Just because they don't advertise the process like some clowns like Butterss doesn't mean there isn't a process in place.

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In WADA we trust

And quite easily they can take a stab at any of the following if they want to be seen as taking a 'modern approach' with their next coach, without the extensive interview approach.

Bond
McKenna
Longmire

There are a lot of candidates that would jump at the prospect of coaching Carlton, and I don't think anyone would be too upset if we got 1 of the above 3.

The wheels keep turning.

As for a board that could write off our debt to the AFL, well that's not disruptive, that is fast tracking our milestones, and ridding us of our millstones.

Bring it on now if it's real....and then lets get that PP 2002 for Leuenberger.

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Everyone looks good in Navy Blue

There would have to be a pretty good chance that a new board would replace a lot of key positions, including the CEO. So Malouf probably realises his best chance of maintaining his position is to campaign for the current board.

The current board would be hoping that not losing Thornton and Russell and appointing Ratts gives them enough traction to hold onto their position.

OK, so they've successfully held some ground this last month. Haven't gone forward, haven't gone backwards. And courtesy of being the worst-performed team in 2006, we'll get the first pick and a bonus second-rounder.

But... the fact remains that our board is clearly ill-equipped to take the club where we all want it to go: as a genuine (off-field) rival to Collingwood, Adelaide, Sydney, Essendon* and West Coast.

They're unable to generate adequate corporate support. They've sold our independance to the AFL for a few pieces of silver. They've hopelessly compromised our football operations with their 'Dead Man Walking' policy on Pagan.

In short, they're stretched to the very limit of their abilities just holding back the floodwaters. Rather than being able to trade into the draft that could MAKE our list, they struggle to hold onto players. Rather than build our financial base, they struggle to minimise losses.

They may be triers, but they're not up to it.

I hope nobody is fooled by a couple of phone calls from Smorgon, a couple of puff pieces from Mike Sheahan, and a few draft picks that we got simply because we played such crap footy this year.

The current board need to be replaced by a better option. For all our sakes, we'd better hope that the people mobilising behind the scenes are (a) genuinely better and (b) able to sell themselves to the members.

Dukes - I wasn't being revisionist I merely stated my memory of how we appointed coaches in the past (and I invited people with better memories to correct me ). But with respect to Pagan's appointment I dont think our board went as far as interviewing Wallace and Eade did they?

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

This will upset Sinners:


Maybe no challenge after all?

Ratts eases Brown frustration






[url]http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,20593781^20322,00.html[/url]

There are certainly things happening but I think now a full spill is the less likely option. The current board has no doubt won back some support over the last couple of weeks but as John says it's mainly fluff and there isn't much more than holding on going on.

If those challenging could win the four seats up for grabs then those four added to Greg Lee and Adrian Gleeson whose football review came out in favour of sacking Pagan (I won't include Kernahan as he's got no idea about pretty much anything these days) would effectively provide a majority.

You could then hold a vote on the Presidency and force Smorgon to step aside for someone with a clue. This would all be far less disruptive than a full spill which would again leave us with a totally fresh board.

There's no need for every member of the board to be in agreeance with each other and there's a fair argument that the opposite is actually much healthier.

As for Fraser Brown? He's not the only influential but dissatisfied Carlton supporter out there.

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I'm tiring of all this 'board challenge' business.

These whispers have been going on for 6-10 months. I believe this all amounts to hot air. The most recent talk has the Pratt family still being non-commital.

I'm sceptical of any white knight wiping away our debt.

Also it should be known that one of the mooted future presidents in Ahmed Fahour is a friend of Graham Smorgon. Hence, he won't be in any board challenge ticket.

Let's see what happens.

I believe the current board is correct in continuing to go about its business, appointing staff, retaining players etc etc. There may well be no challenge.

Dennis.

Really?

Who compiled this list and what was the process?
Were Eade, Wallace and Pagan all interviewed?
It's no point accusing others of revisionist history and then manipulating the facts to support your view.

I'd suggest Elliott grabbed Pagan like someone on the Titanic grabbing a lifeboat. It was a politically motivated appointment with self preservation being the overriding factor.
I find it amusing that because he is a 2 time premiership coach, Pagan was the best candidate.
Barrassi was a 3 or 4 time premiership coach. Does that make him twice as good as Pagan?
What about Tom Hafey? Should we sign him up now?
Having the ability to develop your players and get the maximum output from your list is also an indicator of a successful coach. Not just coaching a immensely talented team to a premiership.

Allan Joyce anyone?

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

The Ratten appointment is dripping in politics...

It waters down the Brown concerns enormously.

It's either a big play by Kernahan, or an even bigger play by Pagan.

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"...that's the thing about opinion - you don't have to know anything to have one..." Andre Agassi commenting on Pat Cash 2004
"...the less you know - the more you believe..." - Bono 2006

Given that one of those seats is Smorgon's, if the new ticket wins all that is up for grabs, Smorgon will not even be there and a new President will be a formality.