I believe some of the things Simonverbeek has said are true. All of you are very quick to shoot him down (I dont know if Simpson should be singled out we have many other poor youngsters) but think about it. Firstly, on this website far to often our stars are bagged whilst the "we must let the kids mature" line is used on the youngsters. Yes, we should expect big things from our 'star' players, but in my eyes any player selected in the 22 has been deemed up to AFL level and should be judged equally. Yes I know people would be saying "how can we compare Kouta to Simpson", but although there will be large differences, Simpson (not to single him out as there are many others) should not be playing unless they are ready for afl football. The difference between AFL and VFL has been perfectly demonstrated in recent weeks. Longmuir had 2 touches in 2 weeks of afl football, yet in 2 games in the Bullants he has +/- 60 touches... This is further evidenced by people such as Brett Johnson, Glen Bowyer who dominate at reserve level yet struggle in the AFL. They may not get much time from Pagan but when they are on there i sure as hell dont see them carving up teams or even looking like being a 20+ posession player.

My answer to all this is simple. We have seen recently that we are the weakest team by far in the AFL with regards to tackling and general body size (and even leg speed). As a result, we are bringing players into the seniors who have the build and speed for VFL football but not the AFL. So please can the lot of you stop saying that he should be given more time. It is simple, if they are to small there is NO excuse, let them develop in the reserves until they are ready.

Finally and most importantly, as for SVB's comment regarding our lower tier.. he is 100% correct. I have shared this view for a long time. Whilst some of you are realistic, others simply cannot see that our lower tier is pathetic. Actually, more to the point... List our best 11 players (half a team), follow this by listing the next 11. Do this same process now for basically any other list (except for maybe Collingwood and Essendon*) and you will see that the jump between 11 and 12 is probably greater than the jump between 1 and 22 on most of the top lists!!!!!!

Judged equally - are you kidding?

A guy on $500,000 a year v a guy on $60,000 a year being judged equally???

What a ridiculous proposition. Of course there are different expectations on players of different skill / maturity levels / ages. Every player is judged by the standard we expect, not on their ability to be best player on the ground.

So you anti Kade people would much rather discard a guy who has everything we are lacking?

For those of you playing at home, that being talent, skill and pace.

Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Funny how this thread comes up after his average performance in yesterday's game. Well Waitey had a bad game, should we show him the door as well?

It was only a few weeks ago that we were singing Kade's praises and now some of you want him gone.

Fickle lot.

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Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

...Phoenix is right....and Carlton people seem to be getting more fickle - obviously lacking patience. I'm pretty happy with the youngsters at the club - Simmo included. I've been a little negative about Adam Bentick, but I'm leaving him in the side this week - because how else will we tell if we have a player or not. He has something - just needs a little confidence. Needs to know what his role is. Needs senior experience.

Imagine the scenario 3 years from now if you will. The hun finally do a good news story about the blues. Pictured are the maturing bodies of Bentick, Simpson, Blackwell, Walker, Russell, Davies, Betts & Smith. They've all played 50+ games and the journo asks the boys what the difference in the club is now compared to 3 years ago. Experience is the answer. 3 years ago - they were just that - boys...learning a mans game and on a huge learning curve under the tuteledge from current captain Nick Stevens - recently retired duo Kouta and Campo on field and Elshaugh, Pagan and Mitchell off field. Playing different roles and on far more experienced footballers - now they are the new mosquito fleet and the reason behind why Carlton's key forwards in Brendan Fevola and Brad Fisher are keeping the Blues scoreboard ticking over not to mention the height factor in Adam Harlett, Chris Bryan and Irishman Setanta O'hailpin playing havoc with opponents defence.

Now this is all a little wishful thinking attitude I know...but it's a possibility. Under many people's theories - had they been Western Bulldogs supporters - the 'underacheiving' Giansiracusa and Gilbee would be gone - and just look what they are doing this year. And those two are good analogies. Giansiracusa arrived at the Bulldgos at 67kgs. Look at him now. No reason Simmo - under the extremely wise Pete Mulkearns, can't whack on the kg's at season's end. You gotta be patient guys - and you gotta support the kids - at 31 years of age I'm old enough to know that we've never had it quite as bad - but I'm old enough to remember when we never had it so good. No reason those days can't come 'round again... Go Blues!

All our younger players are going to have poor games but we just have to keep playing them...every game they play can only benefit them so we may as well keep players like Simpson in the side and not drop him..

Kade needs full-games or to play 75%+ of a game in the middle...we need to show a little bit more faith as a club I think.

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

Molsey, this is why i said "Yes I know people would be saying "how can we compare Kouta to Simpson", but although there will be large differences"

I understand that there are differences between your stars and the rest of the rabble and anybody who watches any form of sport knows this, but I cannot accept other excuses (age, still bulking up etc.) as once they are on that ground in the 22 they are deemed to be up to AFL level. Yes, they may not be stars and yes, players aren't stars from game 1 and take time to develop.. but unfortunately.. we have too many players who simply ARE NOT up to it.. and that I think is the underlying message of SVB.

I also ask you.. are we now truly seeing the affect of the draft penalties? Whilst Melbourne have Mclean, Sylvia, Bell etc. out there, We have pick 50,60,70,80 in those drafts running around and it shows. They weren't picked up at these high choices because they are stars I'll tell you that. Gone are the days of your Chris Grant, James Hirds getting picked up late, but rather players who other teams may have speculated on.. but rather we are trying to build a team with!!!

Look MB when you're sitting last on the ladder just about everyone is in the firing line... but those guys who have played <20 games are surely those least able to do something about it. I think our senior players and mid tiers are at fault, particularly the mid tiers whose skill level has dropped and whose ability to find the ball has collapsed. We have a number of players who are lacking that midfield leadership to bring them in the game, too few who can do that themselves.

How on earth can you infer that Simmo isn't up to it from one bad game? What sort of judge are you?

You can deem all you want but the simple fact is that we dont expect these players to win the game for us. The concept of 'blooding' would seem to be a foreign concept to you - of course they're not up to it YET and that's why they're being played.

To answer your question, I think we are still seeing the effect of woeful list management in the late 1990's, and the start of the effect of the draft penalties. So in my view, the worst is still to come. But its on the shoulders of Simmo, Walker, Bentick, L:vo, Thornton, Fevola where our faith has to lay. If you're such a good judge and these guys aren't up to it then i'd recommend a few years away from the game...

Please tell me you are joking here.. this view is not held based on yesterdays performance.. Apart from the Richmond game which was unaccountable football personified (and hence he got 18 touches as he didnt have to get his hair messed to get the touches), when has been played a game that you have turned around and said "Gee, he'll be a player". His tackling is weak, he is soft as butter and whilst he may be skillful.. he will not get to show us these skills as every time he gets the ball he will S*&t himself that he will get tackled and rush his kick or handpass.
Any with regards to your comment that I should take time away from the game... I go EVERY week (we are in Melbourne), whether we are going to get killed or we are a chance. But if we get killed I want to see someone stand up and show me something (e.g. Carrazzo this year - he may have had average disposal at the start of the year.. but he is working on that and I can say deserves his spot in out best 18, let alone best 22). I want to see the kids says "we are getting killed.. the stars of the team are down and now is my chance to excel". I have not seen that once this year by a youngster (excluding Carazzo as previously mentioned). Actually, sorry I am wrong.. Eddie Betts has done this a few times both in Victory and in Defeat where he has stood up and put his body on the line. Isnt it sad though that he is the smallest and i assume lightest player on our list (out of the youngsters), yet he probably puts in the best effort. Molsey.. I am sure most of us would give our left leg (after our careers) to play AFL football. Our youngsters have been given the chance and are simply not pulling their bodies on the line. Our poor tackling stems from their small frames. I have no time for this as they shouldnt play until their bodies are ready as is seen at every other club.

And the interview with Denis Pagan the year after that where he explains that winning the premiership was hard work, but it was due to the patience of all concerned in waiting for these guys to develop sufficiently. Denis was quoted as saying

"Gee, who would have thought 4 years ago that young Kade Simpson would go on to win a Norm Smith medal and gather 32 posessions on Grand Final day and that Justin Davies would kick 4.0 and Andrew Carazzo would keep Gary Ablett goalless, that Nathan Ablett would struggle so much playing on our gorilla Luke Livingston..ummm..who'd have thought Simon Wiggins would provide some drive off the Half-Back line while keeping Steve Johnson so quiet. Its a fanatstic effort and the boys should be proud of themselves. I really want to thank all the supporters who were so patient waiting for these younger fella's to get their bodies a little bigger, and get the experience they needed. We were confident that onece they played their 50 games they'd be fine. History tells us most players need 50 games before they find the confidence and the consistency thats required at AFL level. Its a tribute to their patience that they're still on board today and a great reward for their loyalty"

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"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

All this "when we win a premiership" talk... Pack away the lubricant and focus on reality. We are a long way off being anything decent. As I have said before we have players who were picked up after pick 50 who were our first or second picks in drafts and hence we are building a team with them in our plans like most teams do with their first few picks (which are a LOOOOOONG way before pick 50). Last year was the first year where I will be able to say that we had a good chance to get the top talent and hence that is our foundation.. not kids like Simpson, Davies etc.

I do have to best honest... until 4 weeks ago I believed that we would win 2 of our next 4 and that would make us currently 1/2 a win off the eight and I thought we'd play finals footy. What I have seen is reality.. it is a tough word.. and after being used to success I am not a fan of it.. but it has arrived... so put the box of tissues away and the lubricant.. coz the only reason you'll be using this in the next few years isnt on the NEAR future.. but to pass time while ppl from the draft of 2004 ONWARDS develop

So you're sitting there, eagerly awaiting the next stuffup so you can jump on board? Hawthorn - respectable, definitely. Richmond - one of the few tryers the whole game. Melbourne - hardball gets and then covered Davey well when Houla we beaten and Carrots couldnt go back with his injury. Have you seen him control the lower levels despite not having the size? I'd suggest you don't want to see him coming through for you sure aren't looking.

Monsta, welcome to the site by the way, the problem is that we don't have everyone elses list. We don't have depth of AFL quality players. WE have a bucket load of tryers, a bit of experience and thats about it. You're asking for a luxury we can't afford. You're asking for a list that we don't have. Kade Simpson is one of the higher skilled players on the list and you should give him a break. Sure he'll probably get dropped this week after being hassled off the ball too easily, but in a congested style game this is going to happen. It kills Whitnalls game, and pressures Stevens and Houla more than we would like. Great unpressured players those two.

I just find your stance incredibly short-sighted and ignores the plight of our list. Simmo is in our best 25 already despite him being tiny - you can like that or dislike it but he will continue to get opportunities for the Club sees the upside, not a doughnut game.

Molsey, whilst I am anti-Simpson (which I will admit) in my first post I did say that he should not be singled out... you saying he is in our best 25 in what my point is about Carlton at the moment. The gap between 11 and 12 is as great as 1 to 25 at most lists and hence we are happy to accept mediocrity. We are a proud club... but I cannot handle so many soft young players in our seniors at the same time. Ok, maybe play one or two of them to get experience becuase if you dont give it to them how will they get it.. but once you have to many at once.. teams target this. If we have 5 young players on the ground who arent strong enough yet, that is just under 1/4 of our on field personel who can be targeted by opposition players.

Well we can agree on something - the state of our list ain't good enough. I think though you are being way too negative on the young kids, and probablymissing how many tackles are missed by senior players. How much did the commentators get excited because Fev actually landed a tackle? We're undersized, underskilled. The great thing about youngsters with skill is though that you can add size over time...

And when you try build them up to fast = stress factures like last year

But as I said before, I believe we need more big bodies on the ground than we do atm. To many kids at once can be counter productive....

You obviously haven't been watching enough.

Did you see him in action against Melbourne? Stole the ball from a Melbourne player, literally and tore off down the field and kicked long to the goal square.

Also in that game, his bullet pass to Deluca on the lead.

Honestly - WATCH THE BLOOPIN' GAME!!!!

We obviously have kids who aren't good enough but in all honesty, it's all MID-TIER WHO ARE THE PROBLEM...

If you have a building that has a good top end, has a reasonable young base but rotten mid-section the building will fall anyway.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

...so what happened...?

Anyone care to tell me where simmo's playing this week?

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They will know that they've been playing against the famous old dark blues

did you wake up in the middle of the night hot and cold flushes cos u forgot to stick it up us??
We knew Simmo will get dropped.. it happens to everyone...
sometime... unless you have red hair and freckles or you run behind packs for handballs...
so what???........




ok now you can go back to sleep at peace with the fact and knowing that Simmo was dropped cos Campo wont let him run past players and collect handballs...

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I would keep Kade Simpson and Justin Davies at least for another year minimum, they both need to put a bit of muscle on i think if both have more run in the middle they would do ok instead of getting put on a pocket.

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Bang Bang.

i watched the bullants game last night and scotland must be getting a run on reputation unless he thinks simmo needs a run in the twos to spur him on because scotland was average at best in the ants last week.

of course i havent seen the blokes train, but scotty seemed down on confidence still.

i'd rather give longmuir a go, he seemed to grow and grow throught the ants game last week. was running hard and backing himself.