Talking Carlton Index Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington CFC Home CFC Membership CFC Shop CFC Fixture Blueseum
It is currently Wed Jul 09, 2025 4:01 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Supporters' Mentality
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:43 pm 
Offline
Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:26 pm
Posts: 4719
Location: Parliament House, Canberra
I don't mind being criticised for this.

I am going to categorically state that people who want instant results are buying into the new-age mentality of instant gratification. I really want a new car, oh yeah, i can afford it, bingo, new car. I like that book, i'll go and get it now, I can afford it.

Problem is I do it. But I know deep down that sometimes it isn't right. And the same applies to footy results.

As a group of Carlton supporters, we are used to success. Few clubs have matched our record of 7 premierships in the last 35 years. We are therefore conditioned to expecting success and there is nothing wrong with a winning mentality. However, that was in the days of chequebook recruiting and we had some great home grown champions.

Things have changed, we live in a football world that is post-traditionalist. Unfortunately we have to accept that we have to exist in the football world that we live in. In a post-traditionalist world, we can't expect success just because we throw open a cheque book.

We have problems right now, they are multi-faceted and multi-dimensional. For instance:

Coaching - I think Pagan hasn't got the best out of his group of players. Having said that, I think he got the best out of them last year. At the end of last year some gained new contracts and hence may have grown complacent. Some of Pagan's tactics are unimaginative and he doesn't rotate the bench all that often. But at the same time we have players who have flourished under Pagan. Fevola, Walker, Waite, Thornton, Fisher, Carazzo are just a few examples. Bentick, Simpson, Russell, Bryan, Hartlett, Raso, Blackwell may well join them. We don't know that, and to expect kids to make the transition to AFL footy when some of them have had to move interstate (Russell, Hartlett, Blackwell) and move from the country (Walker, Waite) is a bit much. Until the new draftees play seniors we won't know how good Pagan's development is. His support staff need fresh blood, I don't know if Libba's contract will be renewed at the end of the year. I suspect that they might go look for someone else. However, I think that Pagan has failed to enthuse the side this year, except for the Wizard Cup. Some players are getting dejected and this is hurting their teammates. Pagan needs to address this ASAP. Having said that, Pagan doesn't have much to work with as I will address below.

Player leadership - I will pretty much say straight out that we have the worst leadership Carlton has ever had in the modern era. When the senior players show complete lack of resilience to psychological barrages, it shows the rest of the side that if our leaders can't help us, then we're stuffed and this mentality shows. The best way to cop a psychological barrage is to show the opponent that it does nothing and to hit back on the scoreboard with a goal or a big bump. Then you ram it back in their face. We are weak, we have players who refuse to psychologically intimidate but rather are being intimidated. It was heartening to see Walker give Aker a good spray and argey-bargey the other week. We need more of that.

Playing talent - This is a serious problem. We have players on the list who simply will not be good enough. Access to higher draft picks and more of them lessens the chance of us picking up a player who will not make the grade. Until this is fixed, no matter what the coaching staff try to do we will still have a crap list. In order to fix a crap list, you have to take time to draft a good list. There's only a certain number of picks that you can get that are worth getting per year. To cure 6 bad players, you may need 2 drafts. We have about 20 inadequate players, theoretically this could take 6 years. We may have to chop a current favourite or one with talent in order to possibly get 2 with talent. It may hurt now but it will make healing quicker. There are no band-aid solutions. We need some kids, Denis has probably found out who of the retreads will be worth keeping and the list isn't flattering.

There are so many factors and I haven't even covered them all. Because there are so many, we can't fix them all in a period of 3 years, which is what some supporters seem to be expecting Pagan to do. There are some things he can control in the near future but there are some that he can't.

The fall of the Carlton Football Club started in 1997/1998 hitting its lowest ebb in 2002. I think that the climb back will take at least something similar in timeframe if we're going to do it properly. The 2004 draft was the first step, I expect it will be 2008 before we field a decent finals side. But I'm willing to wait, just to hit back at the critics. Are you? Or are you indicative of the culture we live in that wants short-term results at the expense of a long-term structure. Look at Collingwood. They took the 3 year process but failed in 2 grand finals and as such are looking at spending a few years unless they bottom out next year. Brisbane's rise was quicker but they were not hindered by draft penalties as we were hence were able to get back in 3 years.

It's a long ride but it will be worth it. Are you willing to join me and others on the long road back? Or are you going to decide it's too hard and take soft options such as bailing or trying to get short-term solutions when there are none?

_________________
"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:57 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:17 am
Posts: 17381
Location: the Yarran's fertile shores
haven't we already covered this?

_________________
Love Cricket? Love me


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:37 pm 
Offline
Ken Hands

Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 10:45 pm
Posts: 423
The Tyrant wrote:
haven't we already covered this?


several times...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:40 pm 
Offline
Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:50 pm
Posts: 2123
See Clem I reckon it's easy to say that we need to look longer-term, not get caught up in immediate results etc. And to be honest I reckon you're right. However, when I go to the footy every week I want to see us win the game. I go to the footy to see Carlton win, even nowadays every week I'm disappointed when we lose despite obviously recognising that we aren't a great side. I can't help going to the footy and cheering on the Blues and hoping they win. I think a lot of fans are the same. You're right, it is more about the future than any games we win now. But I want us to win every week, Clem. I don't like losing, I can't help that. I do realise that we are going to lose more games than we are going to win still for the next little period in Carlton history, however I just want to see Carlton win games of footy. It's hard to go every week to the footy and not hope that we win that given game.

Having said all that, nowadays like most supporters I think I do look after every loss for the positives from that defeat. It's not as bad a feeling if we at least had some young players play well and show some promising signs for the future. I was really heartened by Carrazzo's game last night and I've been impressed with Waite all year. I also know that in Thornton we've found a player and that Andy Walker will hopefully one day be a star. I've been encouraged by Chris Bryan in the ruck and Kade Simpson has done some good things. We haven't even seen Jordan Russell yet but having seen him yesterday in the VFL we might not have to wait much longer.

So every loss week after week still hurts. Therefore, in a sense, it's in my opinion normal to want immediate results, however unrealistic the prospect might seem. I want us to win every game we play and that will always be the case. I will also be disappointed after every loss. But that disappointment is tempered somewhat by our younger players performing well and showing us that when we are a good side again, they'll be very good players. There are nine games left and I want to win them all and I'll cheer us on and hope that there is some miraculous turnaround, even though I know realistically that it's hoping against hope.

_________________
Formerly Blues-Back2003.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:46 pm 
Offline
Bob Chitty
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:50 pm
Posts: 809
Abaddon wrote:
The Tyrant wrote:
haven't we already covered this?


several times...


C'mon fellas,

It's all about airing thoughts, ideas, possible solutions, SOMETHING to give a little hope for the future.

We are in the shitter, no doubt about it and we all have differing strategies for coping with the depression. Clem has his, mine tends to involve throwing stuff at the telly, swearing at the top of my voice and downing another VB.

Each to their own.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:49 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:17 am
Posts: 17381
Location: the Yarran's fertile shores
no, he can say what he wants..... my concern is for the number of threads that just cover old ground and clog up room on the mainboard.

_________________
Love Cricket? Love me


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:53 pm 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:00 am
Posts: 23123
The Tyrant wrote:
no, he can say what he wants..... my concern is for the number of threads that just cover old ground and clog up room on the mainboard.


Told you that you should be a moderator. :wink:

_________________
|♥♥♥♥♥♥| http://www.blueseum.org |♥♥♥♥♥♥|


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:59 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:17 am
Posts: 17381
Location: the Yarran's fertile shores
I wouldn't ban him for it though :wink:

_________________
Love Cricket? Love me


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:11 pm 
Offline
Stephen Silvagni
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:04 am
Posts: 28377
Location: *Currently banned*
My mentality as a supporter is that I want Carlton to win every week, and other teams according to how I've tipped, and certain players to play well if they are in my Fantasy Team.

I care nought for draft picks as they impact on how I spend my leisure time in no way whatsoever. I rarely consider too far into the future, as life has told me it is futile to get to far ahead of myself. I only have today. What will be will be.

I support Carlton. I barrack for Carlton. If we win I'm happy. If we lose I'm sad. Immediately after a loss I'm already looking forward to the next game and the promise of a better result. If that doesn't happen, that's football.

Every chance to watch the Blues is a delight, be it in a smokey pub in innercity Brisbane, the comfort of my home, the Gabba or a special trip to Melbourne. Just seeing the Navy Blue jumper running out is a buzz. And I always find voice to cheer...no matter where I am and no matter what the score. I love being a Carlton supporter.

Only one team wins the premiership each year...I'm not foolish enough to think it will be Carlton every year, but that would be nice. There is no proven path to winning...other than having 22 very good players on the park on the last Saturday in September.

That's my mentality. That's why I love the Blues.

CARN THE BLUES!!!!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:27 pm 
Offline
Bob Chitty
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:50 pm
Posts: 809
verbs wrote:
My mentality as a supporter is that I want Carlton to win every week, and other teams according to how I've tipped, and certain players to play well if they are in my Fantasy Team.

I care nought for draft picks as they impact on how I spend my leisure time in no way whatsoever. I rarely consider too far into the future, as life has told me it is futile to get to far ahead of myself. I only have today. What will be will be.

I support Carlton. I barrack for Carlton. If we win I'm happy. If we lose I'm sad. Immediately after a loss I'm already looking forward to the next game and the promise of a better result. If that doesn't happen, that's football.

Every chance to watch the Blues is a delight, be it in a smokey pub in innercity Brisbane, the comfort of my home, the Gabba or a special trip to Melbourne. Just seeing the Navy Blue jumper running out is a buzz. And I always find voice to cheer...no matter where I am and no matter what the score. I love being a Carlton supporter.

Only one team wins the premiership each year...I'm not foolish enough to think it will be Carlton every year, but that would be nice. There is no proven path to winning...other than having 22 very good players on the park on the last Saturday in September.

That's my mentality. That's why I love the Blues.

CARN THE BLUES!!!!!!


looks like that prozac's working a treat verbs!

I certainly admire your mentality


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:01 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
You dont look into the future too much when youre enjoying the present.
Are you enjoying the present???

Well if youre not.. you better start planning and looking into the future or you get....

GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY GROUNDHOG DAY

Or otherwise known as Northitis... never to win a premiership ever again cos you cant take the pain to get the elite players.

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:09 pm 
Offline
Stephen Silvagni
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:04 am
Posts: 28377
Location: *Currently banned*
I'm loving the present. My life is great. I plan the future only to a limited degree...in the past I was obsessed about planning the future, but as I matured I realised it was futile getting too far ahead of myself.

Enjoy what you've got while you've got it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:13 pm 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:00 pm
Posts: 24655
Location: Kaloyasena
No problems - anyone want to come over to my place for a "Woopdee do we are 16th on the ladder and we feel really good about it Party". :roll:

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:22 pm 
Offline
Stephen Silvagni
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:04 am
Posts: 28377
Location: *Currently banned*
AGRO wrote:
No problems - anyone want to come over to my place for a "Woopdee do we are 16th on the ladder and we feel really good about it Party". :roll:


If that's how you choose to lead your life and the ladder position is what makes you happy in life then it's your problem if you're not happy.

Roll your eyes all you want...they're your eyes.

Strange way to spend leisure time obsessing over something that doesn't make you happy.

I love footy. Love Carlton. Love supporting Carlton regardless of how many wins we have, what position on the ladder we are.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:22 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
verbs wrote:
I'm loving the present. My life is great. I plan the future only to a limited degree...in the past I was obsessed about planning the future, but as I matured I realised it was futile getting too far ahead of myself.

Enjoy what you've got while you've got it.
I used to not worry about stuff when i was 18... after that i thought i better get a superannuation or somnething or im [REDACTED] when im 65.

Anyway whatever works ...

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:26 pm 
Offline
Stephen Silvagni
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:04 am
Posts: 28377
Location: *Currently banned*
Synbad wrote:
verbs wrote:
I'm loving the present. My life is great. I plan the future only to a limited degree...in the past I was obsessed about planning the future, but as I matured I realised it was futile getting too far ahead of myself.

Enjoy what you've got while you've got it.
I used to not worry about stuff when i was 18... after that i thought i better get a superannuation or somnething or im F@%&#! when im 65.

Anyway whatever works ...


Why would you "worry" about getting super? It's hardly a difficult thing to put in place. There are people who can help and advise you with these things.

Super is an important part of all of our futures...it's something we can all control as part of our lives.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:26 pm 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:00 pm
Posts: 24655
Location: Kaloyasena
verbs wrote:
AGRO wrote:
No problems - anyone want to come over to my place for a "Woopdee do we are 16th on the ladder and we feel really good about it Party". :roll:


If that's how you choose to lead your life and the ladder position is what makes you happy in life then it's your problem if you're not happy.

Roll your eyes all you want...they're your eyes.

Strange way to spend leisure time obsessing over something that doesn't make you happy.

I love footy. Love Carlton. Love supporting Carlton regardless of how many wins we have, what position on the ladder we are.


You missed the point, I was referring to the club planning for the future, not about life, and I will roll em again one more time. :roll: :P

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:28 pm 
Offline
Stephen Silvagni
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:04 am
Posts: 28377
Location: *Currently banned*
I thought the point of this thread was supporters' mentality not the club's mentality -- hence the title.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:28 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
verbs wrote:
Synbad wrote:
verbs wrote:
I'm loving the present. My life is great. I plan the future only to a limited degree...in the past I was obsessed about planning the future, but as I matured I realised it was futile getting too far ahead of myself.

Enjoy what you've got while you've got it.
I used to not worry about stuff when i was 18... after that i thought i better get a superannuation or somnething or im F@%&#! when im 65.

Anyway whatever works ...


Why would you "worry" about getting super? It's hardly a difficult thing to put in place. There are people who can help and advise you with these things.

Super is an important part of all of our futures...it's something we can all control as part of our lives.


whoooooooooosh!!!

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:30 pm 
Offline
Stephen Silvagni
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:04 am
Posts: 28377
Location: *Currently banned*
Synbad wrote:
verbs wrote:
Synbad wrote:
verbs wrote:
I'm loving the present. My life is great. I plan the future only to a limited degree...in the past I was obsessed about planning the future, but as I matured I realised it was futile getting too far ahead of myself.

Enjoy what you've got while you've got it.
I used to not worry about stuff when i was 18... after that i thought i better get a superannuation or somnething or im F@%&#! when im 65.

Anyway whatever works ...


Why would you "worry" about getting super? It's hardly a difficult thing to put in place. There are people who can help and advise you with these things.

Super is an important part of all of our futures...it's something we can all control as part of our lives.


whoooooooooosh!!!


Why am I not surprised subtlety goes straight over your head? :lol: :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 30 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group