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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:55 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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You're right Speedy - my mistake.

Better vote him out then. :-D

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:13 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Kaptain Kouta wrote:

While we all laugh at Rod "I can't believe it's not" Butterssss and his wanky talk about processes, at least there is some sort of structured process that happens at The Aints, and if knee-jerk reactions continue to happen at Carlton, we won't get any better. And that includes a knee-jerk sacking of Pagan.


The st Kilderrrrrr system is a crock. Possibly the most humiliating experience for ANY would-be senior coach.

Butterrs "I've got a good idea!! let's invite Melbourne's media here and have 6 coaches walk straight past them on the way in and out of the interview. This way we can see how they handle the media on the news that night :? We'll even give them the interview timetable :shock: "

What a dunce! He may have appointed 1 coach (who is less than convincing) but he's made sure the other 5 or so won't be back at Moorabbin in a hurry :evil: .

They have done nothing but @#$%&! up for the last 5 years(I mean 105 years), and spin it so the public think this is the modern way of doing AFL business.

Many people here are among the suckers to take it hook line and sinker :? .

No, let's stay away from the aints model.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:28 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Ratts eases Brown frustration

Looks like Fraser is relatively happy with Ratts appointment and Crosisca - he may not be part of any challenge - there may be an alternative challenge or Brown has wiped his fingerprints of any prospective challenge!!!

Interesting times ahead - all will be revealed soon.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:34 pm 
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Robert Walls

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What an master stroke to appoint Ratten- bring back a champ of the club & prevent a board challenge!!!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:27 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

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BlueWorld wrote:
What an master stroke to appoint Ratten- bring back a champ of the club & prevent a board challenge!!!


You got it.....appease Brown and make him go away by appointing his mate....who knows how far that deal has gone....even to the point of getting Pagans job if and when he sees out his contract or get the chop..
Smorgon, Sticks and co survive and everyone is happy...except Barry Mitchell.

I heard a bit of rumour that Richard Pratts son was approached to front a challenge to the board...anyone confirm or deny that rumor?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:45 pm 
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Wayne Johnston
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politics politics politics.....

...can't wait for Maloufs book after he's eventually 'let go' :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 1:59 pm 
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Robert Walls

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It was always going to be either ratts or sos join Denis..... the reason being that the senior players simply dont listen and can not take orders from Denis.

SOS and Ratts are well respected thats why Rattan was brought in and he will deal with the senior group of players.

Denis wanted SOS as it was made aware to him that some senior players had been in contact with him

SOS rejected 2 year full time offers by Sydney, Tigers and Geelong because he knew of the situation becoming


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:27 pm 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:26 pm
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Elwood Blues1 wrote:

I heard a bit of rumour that Richard Pratts son was approached to front a challenge to the board...?


Did the rumor also include what his response was - I mean if they knew he was approached, surely they'd also know the answer?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:44 pm 
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Trevor Keogh

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:38 pm
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Wangers wrote:
Interesting times ahead - all will be revealed soon.


You have been promising this for 6 months now, as have others.

There's been an "imminent board challenge in 2-3 weeks" every week since April now.

I just hope you're all right and it eventually comes. As someone said above, I hope it's not just "hot air".

I'm watching you Wangers :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:48 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Melvey wrote:
It was always going to be either ratts or sos join Denis..... the reason being that the senior players simply dont listen and can not take orders from Denis.


$12,000.00+ per week to a coach that a lot of the players dont listen to.
Thats handy.


What's Lappins view?





or Shannon Hurn? :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:58 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Gleeson pffft. What review did he conduct? This surbuban financial planner does not inspire and is not the answer. Vote him off - he was never voted on for a start :evil:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:02 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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It's not that easy ! Anthony Pratt is the CEO of Pratt Industries (USA) and as such is based over there. Richard Pratt is Chairman of VISY and Anthony's kicking butt on the business field over there in the States - so I personally can't see him coming back. Harry Debney is CEO of VISY here in Australia and hasn't put a foot wrong so unlikely to move over for Anthony if he came home.

Approaching Anthony would have been done with Richards' blessing I'm sure. Dick's had prostate cancer and it would have been perfect 'ammo' for Carro to make a Bullshit story about the Blues approaching the son of their wealthiest member ($5.2billion) while he had cancer....so I read that as more a 'courtesy - we're just sounding you out if on the chance you'll bring the family back to Australia'.

I'm sure it'll happen one day - but between the Pratts', Smorgons', Grollos', Bruce Mathieson and the NAB - big business deals is what will determine who can, can't, will or won't join the board.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:19 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Location: Within the old Carlton recruting zone ...
Blue Vain wrote:
Dukes wrote:
Revisionist history once again.

Pagan was on a list of a number of candidates at the time ... Wallace, Eade, Pagan, etc. As a 2 time premiership coach Pagan was THE outstanding candidate available and we got him. Thats what boards do ... decide ont he best candidate and get him. Just because they don't advertise the process like some clowns like Butterss doesn't mean there isn't a process in place.


Really?

Who compiled this list and what was the process?
Were Eade, Wallace and Pagan all interviewed?
It's no point accusing others of revisionist history and then manipulating the facts to support your view.

I'd suggest Elliott grabbed Pagan like someone on the Titanic grabbing a lifeboat. It was a politically motivated appointment with self preservation being the overriding factor.
I find it amusing that because he is a 2 time premiership coach, Pagan was the best candidate.
Barrassi was a 3 or 4 time premiership coach. Does that make him twice as good as Pagan?
What about Tom Hafey? Should we sign him up now?
Having the ability to develop your players and get the maximum output from your list is also an indicator of a successful coach. Not just coaching a immensely talented team to a premiership.

Allan Joyce anyone?


Wallace was spoken to at the time for sure. Not sure about Eade. I can't provide you with the exact interview process but do you really need a starting list of 100 to make the process credible. The failure of Brittain made the Board look to an established coach. Questioning Pagan's credentials back at that time is a bit rich. He took over a struggling team (which everyone conveniently forgets), with little money and turned them into the best team of the decade, winning 2 flags for the club - their first since the 70s.

If it's easy getting premierships out of immensely talented teams then surely Thomas would be a 3 time premiership coach - he isn't.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:53 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Dr.SHERRIN wrote:
It's not that easy ! Anthony Pratt is the CEO of Pratt Industries (USA) and as such is based over there. Richard Pratt is Chairman of VISY and Anthony's kicking butt on the business field over there in the States - so I personally can't see him coming back. Harry Debney is CEO of VISY here in Australia and hasn't put a foot wrong so unlikely to move over for Anthony if he came home.

Approaching Anthony would have been done with Richards' blessing I'm sure. Dick's had prostate cancer and it would have been perfect 'ammo' for Carro to make a Bullshit story about the Blues approaching the son of their wealthiest member ($5.2billion) while he had cancer....so I read that as more a 'courtesy - we're just sounding you out if on the chance you'll bring the family back to Australia'.

I'm sure it'll happen one day - but between the Pratts', Smorgons', Grollos', Bruce Mathieson and the NAB - big business deals is what will determine who can, can't, will or won't join the board.


I read somewhere, and i think it was a post on TC, that Anthony Pratt was coming back to Australia quite soon. It might be BS, but if you can be bothered searching for it you should be able to find the post.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:04 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan

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Dukes wrote:
[Wallace was spoken to at the time for sure. Not sure about Eade. I can't provide you with the exact interview process but do you really need a starting list of 100 to make the process credible.


No, but more than one would be handy.
Wallace wanted the job and was'nt even considered.
You're the one who said Pagan was "on a list of candidates".
One person doesnt make a list.

Dukes wrote:
The failure of Brittain made the Board look to an established coach. Questioning Pagan's credentials back at that time is a bit rich. He took over a struggling team (which everyone conveniently forgets), with little money and turned them into the best team of the decade, winning 2 flags for the club - their first since the 70s.


Questioning his credentials?
I'm questioning your recollection of the facts.
Yes Pagan was a premiership coach but so are many others through history. Allan Jeans has more premierships but I wouldnt want him coaching Carlton.
Being a premiership coach doesnt make them the right fit at every club at any time in their development.
We made a decision without going through the right processes first. Unfortunately its become our standard practice.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:11 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Anthony Pratt is definetely coming back to Australia for two reasons. One is his fathers health and the second is to raise his young family in the greatest city in the world.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 4:31 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Quote:
I read somewhere, and i think it was a post on TC, that Anthony Pratt was coming back to Australia quite soon. It might be BS, but if you can be bothered searching for it you should be able to find the post.


Jim Wilson wrote an article that stated that Anthony was "poised" to come home - and although he comes back often throughout the year - I'm yet to see nor hear of any changes to Pratt Industries (USA)...so until I do - I'd take it that Jim was just adding a bit of spice to his 'fraser brown to challenge board' article of September 22.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:17 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Dukes wrote:
. Questioning Pagan's credentials back at that time is a bit rich. He took over a struggling team (which everyone conveniently forgets), with little money and turned them into the best team of the decade, winning 2 flags for the club - their first since the 70s.

If it's easy getting premierships out of immensely talented teams then surely Thomas would be a 3 time premiership coach - he isn't.



Now look who is being a revisionist "struggling team" - Pagan took over 90% of the boys who he nurtured through the Under 19s at North Melbourne - and took over an acknowledged dud of a coach in Schimmelbusch - the reason Schimma got the sack is that he couldnt get at team with the likes of Carey and Longmire and a mid-field of Larkin, German, and others to click - the cattle was there.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:39 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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mikkey wrote:
This will upset Sinners:


Maybe no challenge after all?

Ratts eases Brown frustration





[url]http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,20593781^20322,00.html[/url][/quote]





[quote]CARLTON agitator Fraser Brown last night hailed the appointment of club great Brett Ratten as an assistant coach and hinted it may bring an end to a board challenge.



Not at all... youll find there are huger players at play here.

and will it be bloodless??

Of course it will be bloodless.. .. when it happens the board will scatter in every direction..they dont have the stomach for a fight.. theyre weak.
they are being dictated to by the AFL.
The AFL chooses our coach.. whether we get a priority pick or not...
They are leading us with a stick as well as a carrot...

After all they are weak.. impotent.. and are unable to bring the club to an even keel.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:44 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Elwood Blues1 wrote:
BlueWorld wrote:
What an master stroke to appoint Ratten- bring back a champ of the club & prevent a board challenge!!!


You got it.....appease Brown and make him go away by appointing his mate....who knows how far that deal has gone....even to the point of getting Pagans job if and when he sees out his contract or get the chop..
Smorgon, Sticks and co survive and everyone is happy...except Barry Mitchell.

I heard a bit of rumour that Richard Pratts son was approached to front a challenge to the board...anyone confirm or deny that rumor?
\
He wont do it he has been in the US for 20 years or something..Anthony..

But no worries..

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