_________________
"Who discovered we could get milk from cows, and what did he think he was doing at the time?" Billy Connolly

This is what shits me. Since when were the Demons historical minnows. They and Collingwood were the 2 heavyweights in the 50s and 60s and mismanagement after that has put them in this position as well as recent fuckups by Gabriel Zombie.

Also Kangas and Doggies have lower supporter bases but to say their managemnt decisions had nothing to do with their financial plight is farcical.

Its amazing that teams can still be jealous of Carlton even when wew are at our lowest ebb

_________________
T E A M

I think the point that other clubs are trying to make is that they recognise the Dogs, Kangas and Demons will never get out of the shit they are in and they accept it.
On the other hand, Collingwood was in the shit, they got out of it. Geelong was in the shit they got out of it. Carlton is in the shit, get out of it yourself.

This is the statement I'm most interested in.
This is the first time this barrow has been pushed by anyone outside Carlton.
Hopefully the AFL are throwing this bit of bait out to see what the response is.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

A crap Carlton affects the pies and bombres as much as anybody. home games for those clubs v us will be down from 90,000 to 32,000(last week). That would be a big chunk of their anual budget in one hit. A more successful on field Carlton means more bums on seats for everybody and greater national TV coverage.

Make no mistake, our poor 4 years IS having an effect on TV ratings as much as people through the gate.

If these turds who say Carlton should fold or re-locate thought it through, especially the poorer clubs, they'd realise they need us healthy and in Melboourne to survive.

How many people would you get to a Kangas v West Sydney Blues game at the dome?

The only reason we let them stay in the competition for 100 years is so we had someone to beat .

_________________
end of message

Great post Duke!! That is the heart of the issue right there. Some emotive d1ckhe@d on Bigfooty thinking this is all some kind of universal Karma and that the league is run on some kind of emotional balance to keep fans happy is totally deluded. There is only one religion for the AFL and that is the cult of $$$.

Everybody knows that a strong and successful Carlton brings in the $$ both at the ground and on the TV. A rejuvanated CFC can be a power again in 3 years, the Carrara Kangaroos or West Sydney Blues wont be a force for the next 30. Dont know about the rest of you guys but if the CFC aint around, my membership $$ every year goes to the Melb Victory (might send some there anyway). I barrack for the Carlton Blues, no-one else.

I reckon some of the suspicion might be based upon the fact that we have some well heeled supporters. If you were Smorgo, Pratt, Grollo, Mathieson etc why would you tip in mega $$ when there is a chance that the AFL will do it anyway. The AFL and the other clubs wouldnt want to see their shared money used when some of Pratt's millions could be in the offing otherwise.

Love that last sentence too. I'd started to forget what the old arrogance was all about over the last couple of years

_________________
"Who discovered we could get milk from cows, and what did he think he was doing at the time?" Billy Connolly

I'd go watch the West Sydney Blues every week they played at home

5-6 million people in Sydney its a big market

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Great Post Duke.

Lets not forget for one minute that Andrew Demetrispew is a slimy, greasy, prick of the highest order (I was going to say c#$t but I thought that was too rude).

The only reason the AFL are going to help us - is the fact that its going to help them.

The Spew realises that the KPIs he is measured on will be affected markedly if Carlton are crap for too long.

It is the boards job to make sure we screw the best deal possible out of this Bozo and Ron Evan's.

In particular our short term 3 year loan to the AFL of $1,000,000 should be returned to us with interest.

And the quasi draft penalty this year of removing the PP prior to the first round should be waived in our instance.

All these other tossers from other clubs who say that the mess we made was of our own making so bad luck for us are kidding themselves - St. Kilda and Footscray weren't shit for all those years because they were managed properly - spare me please.

_________________
"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Two responses to Saints fans:

Lindsay Fox
10 cents in the dollar

_________________
"I had to eat"

I thought it was 5c

_________________
T E A M

What's more, since 1992 (14 years) only 3 Victorian teams have won the flag. Carlton x 1, essencum x 2 and roos x 2. ALL other 9 have been between Brisabane, adelaide, sydney, port and WC.

Firstly, how can the afl explain this despite the vic teams making up at least 10 (or 11 with the roys) of the 15-16 teams? while they have only contributed from 4-6 teams per year .

Secondly, how can the pathetic supporters from those OTHER Vic teams be critisizing US when we've clearly been one of the only teams to stop victoria becoming a baron wasteland as far as success is concerned in the game's heartland.

_________________
end of message

Opposition supporters will have the impression in 1995 our flag was obtained by paying players outside the salary cap.

Pretty sure it was 9 cents.

Anyway, what's this shit about Carlton being somehow not worthy of external support from the AFL?

Did Collingwood, the most financially successful club in Victoria, just not put their hands out for a priority pick last season?

Do Collingwood and Essendon* not enjoy the largesse of the AFL, being scheduled to play a monopoly game every Anzac Day?

The fact of the matter is that the AFL is measurably better off if each of Richmond, Carlton, Collingwood and Essendon* are performing strongly. Gate receipts are up, interest is up, rivalries are maintained and strengthened and historical roots (which we lose at our peril) are passed down through the generations.

The AFL isn't completely stupid. It knows these things, and knows that the historical strength of the Carlton's, etc are one of the few things standing between the AFL (an archaic perochial game) and Football (the major threat to our indigenous game).

Carlton WILL get the support it needs to return to a position of strength. Not because we deserve it, but because the competition is better off with us thriving than shrivelling.

North Melbourne, Footscray et al are red herrings. For God's sake, when the Kangaroos were the dominant team of the 90's they had no members and no crowd support. Honestly, they've got a big fat red target painted on their backs and the whole competition knows it. They're being slowly cooked like a frog in ever-increasingly hot water.

Bottom line: we need help and we'll get it. Because we add value to the AFL franchise. End of story.

Duke not picking on you but up until this year AFL attendances have increased every year. Are the Bomber and Pies financially worse off because Carlton is struggling? Yes. Are they feeling it? No, they are better managed clubs and can cope with lean years.

On the issue of TV audiences. The AFL just sold the TV rights for the next 5 years for $780 million. I don't think Carlton and TV rights are on the radar.

My experience of life tells me nothing comes for free in this world...

Nothing....

Id have preferred we had made some hard but right choices in the past.
Id have preffered the club worked harder at building itself up instead of allowing itself to completely fall away and then thinking its going to get something for nothing.

When we win our next premiership we will never live this down...

Easy choices..
when the pp were up for everyone we chose not to persuit them.. now were on our hands and knees grovelling for $$$ and picks... and changing the rules and making exceptions for us.

Pathetic really!!

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I think we all agree that in an ideal situation we get ourselves out of this mess ala Geelong and Brian Cook. (Don't forget though they got millions of funds from AFL, Geelong Council and Bracksy (who does he barrack for again)) But I cant see hows its gunna happen at the moment. We seem to be in a spiral because we have already spent much of tomorrows money.

Rather then gamble on what we may be able to achieve, it makes sense to suck shit for a few years and let the AFL throw us a life jacket. They did it for Brisbane and Sydney and no-one has said that the AFLs assitance caused those teams to win their flags.

What will be pathetic is if we swallow our pride and the AFLs come and the club doesnt get itself back to be a power again

_________________
T E A M

We really don’t deserve the help from the AFL. We haven’t tried to get out of this mess ourselves and for the past 4 years we have only made excuses.

It seems like our current boards plan is to make the AFL and the other 16 clubs feel sorry for us and hand out 7 million and the best talent in Australia.

Why don’t we just cry to the AFL and ask the AFL because it’s too hard us to earn it.

_________________
"Dont count the games, make the games count"

We will be around, but if not I'll be joining you at the Victory and also buy a Scouser membership.

_________________
Mjonc signing off at 8888

The AFL is totally aware of how Carlton, Collingwood and Essendon* keep the competition rolling...

To curb the whingers they are now looking for ways to assist Carlton without looking like they are simply giving the $1 million fine back to us.

We will be looked after in more tasteful ways. Taking over Princes Park etc saves us without handing over a cheque.

Wheels are turning in the right direction...now, if we can just get a win!!

_________________
"...that's the thing about opinion - you don't have to know anything to have one..." Andre Agassi commenting on Pat Cash 2004
"...the less you know - the more you believe..." - Bono 2006

Agreed

_________________
"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch