This 'tactic' seems to polarise people. My stance:

It is a good, useful tactic but we perform it poorly

I think the intention of the tactic is correct. It lets us play the game on our terms and lets us control momentum. It is often the right thing to do.

BUT - I have several objections about how we do it:

1. The players stop running all too often when a teammate raises the ball. THIS IS WRONG! They need to run harder and harder to create the loose option. It is gut busting work, but if we don't run hard to create the loose man then a 50/50 contest at half back is the result - FAIL!

2. We creep backwards rather than forwards. The teams that do this well can 'creep' up the whole ground with short passes and gain position. We end up hemmed in at the back pocket kicking and hoping to a contest on D50. Again, this comes down to running to create the options that move the ball forward.


Basically, when the hands go up, the ball should slow down, but not the players. They need to RUN RUN RUN to create the loose man.

At the moment the hands go up and they all stand on the spot - no wonder the results aren't alwas great.

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For me it's very simple.

The idea is to hold posession at the end of the qtr so we don't cough up a goal, correct?

Every week, we cough up at least two goals by doing this.

Any questions?

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I actually think we've improved this area of our game substantially. We may have given the Saints 1 goals to Gram, but the rest of the time, although heart in your mouth stuff, we controlled play and moved the ball forward, whilst taking considerable time off the clock. Against Geelong we did the same thing for 2-3 mins at a time.

I don't agree we always give up goals when we do this. I think it stands out when we do though.

Kicking backwards has its place, if you're trying to open up space on the other side of the ground. I don't like when we ignore options further up the ground to kick the ball 25m backwards. Basically what he said...



PRO
- We're getting better at it

CON
- We really need the practice.

Glad to see we're working on it in Round 7 rather than trying to figure it out in a Prelim Final.

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I think we start it a little too early... there is some times 5 minutes (plus time on) on the clock when we start.... that's 1/4th of the quarter.

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Its simple, Simon, practice makes perfect. The team isn't as good as the top boys but they are getting better especially with Russell and Scotland controlling things. But it would be nice to see it go forwards a little more rather than consistently back.

And if Thornton is going to play, keep it out of his hands. If I see any more of his lollipops.

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I agree that we've coughed up too many goals doing it, but I think if we learn to use this tactic more effectively, it has massive upside (stop teams scoring against us in red time).

You can't be successful in modern footy until you can do the 'hands up' routine well. The good teams can go the whole ground and score in 'slow-mo', Collingwood did it to us a few times last week.

The main things are:
1. Run to create an option
2. Don't end up hemmed in at the back pocket (see point 1)
3. Don't be forced to kick to a 50-50 (see point 1)

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They will know that they've been playing against the famous old dark blues

The only way I can see this working is if the players are told to never kick it in the defensive 50 - EVER!

If the only option is to go back into the D50, kick to the pack on the boundary line. Simple instruction. Anyone whjo disobeys is sacked and put to death (unless it's Juddy).

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What they should do, is change it so 'ball in air' actually means 'we're about to go crazy', would fool the opp big time LOL

(just make sure all players get the Memo though)

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We will be loving it as a tactic in the 2012 granny when we take the sting out of an attempted magpie comeback 10 mins into the last.

Practice makes perfect.

I like the idea because in the past instead of trying to slow things down a bit and take a deep breathe we have continued to play the only game plan that we came in with. Thus, turning it over and leaking a lot more goals late in quarters. I would love to see our stats of red time goals this year compared to other years at seasons end.

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Wouldn't it be frustrating doing it when were 108 points up with the record grand final margin in sight?

As for the tactic, when we stop noticing it as a problem is the time we have officially arrived.

Imagine if we tried it between 2002-07

Anyone thinks a team can go gangbusters from start to finish is kidding themselves.

Slowing down the game is smart.

Doing it well is smarter. This we need to finesse.

Having said that, none of us know what the signal means, so we need to chill about because it might mean something other than what you all think.

Yazz stated that he and the boys have hand signals to communicate, so why isn't conceivable that the hand in the air holding the ball by a certain player, means something?

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About 18 months ago we held the ball up against Geelong and their coaches box immediately knew they would win the game. I think we have come a long way since then.

I think we know that at some point in a final or a GF, we are going to have to execute this to regain control of a match, or win it at the death. I think there is a deliberate strategy to practice it as much as possible under match conditions in the home & away season so we get better at it. And I think it's working.

I think the view expressed by commentators that our style of play means we could use a breather at the end of the quarter is probably correct. And I would rather our boys come out at the start of the quarter where true momentum is won and lost breathing fire, and ease up at the end of the quarter if that's what it takes to go hard early.

And I think as frustrating as it is to watch when we stuff it up and conceed 1-2 time-on goals (I hate it), people should bear in mind how many time-on goals we were conceeding before we started trialing this (i.e stacks).

On balance, I think we're better for it. Perhaps it just needs fine tuning so we sometimes roll the dice and go for the kill when 1-2 more goals would ice the game.

I reckon the solution is to come up with a new signal...no more holding the ball over the head....as opposition teams know what this means and immediately plan for it...we should have a new signal for every game...

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Agree with this.

We seem to get forced into the back pocket and then turn it over.

Collingwood is probably the best team at slowing the game down, keeping possession and still moving the ball forward. They seem to spread better than most teams and work the ball up the wings.

We are getting better at this, but we still have a way to go. If we can master this area of our game, combined with our ability to play fast paced offensive footy, we will have really come a long way towards number 17.

Here is a simple idea for a new "strategy".

Put he ball under one armpit and stretch out to the side with the other arm.

Then stack the side of the ground closest to the ball (preferably with several tall marking targets close together to prevent the other teAm marking the ball) and kick it SO IT AN BE MARKED TO THE TALL PLAYERS.

Then we have a zone which we can control.

Move the ball forward so a score against us cannot be made.

When in doubt or if control of the ball is lost, use the boundary line as your re-start point.

You've got the right idea TBB.

Keep you eyes on the prize.

We are developing and I hope we peak for the month of September.

Nevertheless we are holding up play well most of the time.
We are also doing well against the competition with our kick ins too.
I reckon we should slow it down at times to get our breath back.
You have to remember we are exerting a lot of energy with our gut busting running and surges forward. We are young.
The effort required to kick 20 goals and defend the other way to hold them to 9 goals warrants some time out for the players.

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Good points.

Malthouse is the biggest user of midfield rotations by far.
He has his reasons, let alone keeping his players fresh for 100% of the time they take the field.
I reckon those rotations are the key to the Pies having players break out/ spread their leads free of defenders consistently.
There must be something in that; after all it's always one of the 15 midfielders who are leading to receive the ball.
I'm sure they mix things up on the ground as much as they do off the bench to confuse.

We'll get them the next time.
As long as we get the ball first and run and break lines faster than they can zone (as we can), we'll get 'em.

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Couldn't have said it better.....
The tactic works we just aren't using it properly.. and on Monday Night it was evident that we gave up plenty of ground when we went back!

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