The system. Today's result. How does it make you feel?

camel · **Posted:** Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:10 pm

Synbad wrote:

camelboy wrote:

When does a game become meaningful?

A game is meaningful when you can feel better for a week...and then get bent over again the week after and come back to earth with a thud.
This can happen to us as long as its happened to the swans if you dont use the system...

I cant understand how people cant think long term.. its really knocks me over to think people can just worry about ONE weekend and not a generation... :roll:

Nicely avoided PM.

When does a game become meaningful?

ScottSaunders · **Posted:** Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:10 pm

now - about the game.

i can handle a lose like we had to today - as i thought we played well.

it may sound strange - but i would love a pp - but not at the expense of losing on purpose.

this is the difference between alot of people.

If we played every game like we did today, with our soul intent on winning the game and lose, no problems from me in getting a pp and no problems from me about finishing last.

but i will not accept that losing is more imprortant than winning. will not accept it at all and am amazed at how people are so prepared to want to lose.

infact - the pp - is a joke. i was hoping the pies would win today as that would mean they wouldnt get a pp - thats bullshit, cant stand collingwood. i should want them to lose every game.

pp has to go - as off next year.

im of the same opion as mikkey.

but IMO it should be 15 games over 3 years gets you a PP.

bottom 4 should go in a raffle to see what picks they get, not last gets first pick, then the next 4 and so on.

The only time a team should get the first pick is when it is a PP

mikkey · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:27 pm **Posts:** 4129

The Shag wrote:

im not gunna bother trying to post things anymore....i'll just quote what synbad says...or say..."what he said"...cause he has a much better way of saying exactly the way i feel...

is that a promise..... please?

phoenix johnson · **Posted:** Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:11 pm

Quote:

but IMO it should be 15 games over 3 years gets you a PP.

I like that system.

The Shag · **Posted:** Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:12 pm

im not gunna promise...but ill try as hard as i can...

bennyvtown · **Joined:** Sun Mar 13, 2005 11:01 pm **Posts:** 203

Synbad wrote:

Well Ryan .. why should Kouta be captain next year???
Captained us to a wooden spoon and we need to go forwards.!!!!!!

By this logic, why should Denis be there next year when he Coached us to one?

I'm not anti-Denis, but I wanna see Kouta captain again next year.

Synbad · **Posted:** Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:20 pm

But Denis is here for another three years...
Kouta isnt... and the club and players need to go forward.

Thats the difference....

dannyboy · **Posted:** Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:37 pm

just on the time thing Synners - could be argued of course that you anfd the pro tankers have the short view on time. Not saying it is but I think it is crap to say someone who wants to play to win only thinks of the short term - its just they might be thinking of a far longer term like well like we've beaten Collingwood more times than they've beaten us - apart from Flags, that means more than most things - but only if you take the long term view. :wink:

mikkey · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:27 pm **Posts:** 4129

ThePrez wrote:

now - about the game.

i can handle a lose like we had to today - as i thought we played well.

it may sound strange - but i would love a pp - but not at the expense of losing on purpose.

this is the difference between alot of people.

If we played every game like we did today, with our soul intent on winning the game and lose, no problems from me in getting a pp and no problems from me about finishing last.

but i will not accept that losing is more imprortant than winning. will not accept it at all and am amazed at how people are so prepared to want to lose.

infact - the pp - is a joke. i was hoping the pies would win today as that would mean they wouldnt get a pp - thats bullshit, cant stand collingwood. i should want them to lose every game.

pp has to go - as off next year.

im of the same opion as mikkey.

but IMO it should be 15 games over 3 years gets you a PP.

bottom 4 should go in a raffle to see what picks they get, not last gets first pick, then the next 4 and so on.

The only time a team should get the first pick is when it is a PP

Prez, many people know that the lottery system and a change of PP rules is the "right thing" - however, guess what: the AFL does not give a sheit.

And why not? Well they don't give a rats arse for tradition and soul of this game - the passion, the history â€“ the culture. What the AFL wants is a â€œNationalâ€

Synbad · **Posted:** Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:41 pm

dannyboy wrote:

just on the time thing Synners - could be argued of course that you anfd the pro tankers have the short view on time. Not saying it is but I think it is crap to say someone who wants to play to win only thinks of the short term - its just they might be thinking of a far longer term like well like we've beaten Collingwood more times than they've beaten us - apart from Flags, that means more than most things - but only if you take the long term view. :wink:

Dannyboy youre right!!!
Im not patient.. i cannot wait 50 years i want success in five years.

I should pull my head in....

gange · **Joined:** Sun May 29, 2005 11:08 pm **Posts:** 14

how did I feel ?

well I was watching it on fox footy with my 8 yr old and we were high fiving every goal, especially when eddy snapped that goal in the last...we were on a high, just soaking up the euphoria of another win coming our way and my son was loving it...gees dad these guys can play footy...yeah I thought, sticking up the premiers we were, how good does this feel, f*%k the PP, who needs that, nothing feels better than that winning feeling right here right now......5 minutes or so later Port start to pull away and the game looks like slipping from the blues...turn the TV off dad...my son is disappointed we couldnt hold on, he aint thinking about the PP, in fact wouldnt know what it was...hey I said, lets watch it till the end, they've played really well today and anyway it aint that bad losing and finishing last son...he stared at me, a sort of WTF look....how can you explain the system to an 8yr old ? It just doesnt make sense...

camel · **Posted:** Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:44 pm

Don't apologise mikkey, that was good stuff.

I agree that if the PP is to be kept then a good system may be to apply the qualification over a number of years. But I cannot agree with the lottery system. While it may or may not stop the attraction to tanking, IMO it would just be moving from one farce to another.

Synbad · **Posted:** Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:45 pm

Show him a picture of Marc Murphy and promise to buy him MMs jumper next year... :wink:

Look... you can put a spin on anything.
What you cant put a spin on is if in 20 years we havent won a flag...

Synbad · **Posted:** Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:48 pm

The pp will probably stay.
Especially if StKilda win the premiership this year.
Clubs will say its unfair to load that club up with guns and then take it away.

On the flip side the AFL is working... (as far as theyre concenred) a wooden spooner is now favourite for the flag (in my opinion) and the AFL with the most succesful clubs at the bottom is about to smash the record attendance figure and new tv rights are about to be another record.. the game is alive and well....

Its leaving behind some of us that are living in the past.

Better change how we think or be lost... forever in our past.

79Vintage · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:59 am **Posts:** 1971

In his press conference Denis Pagan didn't seem convincing when he said he was disappointed with losing. Maybe he was just happy with the efforts of the youngsters or maybe this late in the season he wants the no. 1 pick more than a win.

Bentick started off well in the centre but when Burgoyne started firing he had to be benched because his lack of pace was to much of a liability when trying to match up and stop Burgoyne. Put an A-grade midfielder that needs to tagged in our line up and Bentick would have been able to play four quarters because Port would have had to tag one of our men. If things go our way with the no. 1 pick, a good player who lacks speed like Bentick will be able to play football to his strengths rather than be taken off for his weakness. I'm sure that is what Denis Pagan craves, a bit of versatility in his coaching and the ability to back his younger players in, like he did with Wiggins today.

mikkey · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:27 pm **Posts:** 4129

camelboy wrote:

Don't apologise mikkey, that was good stuff.

I agree that if the PP is to be kept then a good system may be to apply the qualification over a number of years. But I cannot agree with the lottery system. While it may or may not stop the attraction to tanking, IMO it would just be moving from one farce to another.

Why Camel? The lottery system (with 4 picks per lottery) does not entice tanking or the loose /win/ win/loose situation. You woudl have a chance to get the first pick no matter if you are 16 or 13 and the only difference between 12 and 13 might still be pick 4 and 5. It would stop the circus going on right now. If we had the above system we could win all our remaining games and still get pick 1 or pick 4. Does not matter - much better system...

camel · **Posted:** Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:53 pm

I'd still like to hear when you reckon a game is meaningful Synbad.

I got no problems with understanding a view that the remaining games in 2005 are meaningless, but we start with a clean slate in 2006.

If we win 5 games on end in the first 5 weeks do all the remaining games become meangingless because some may think we need another PP?

Is there any point at all in making the finals if you don't finish in the top 4?

Surely you have to agree that games will mean something at one point? What will that point be? When we have what you determine to be a good list? When we're a game outside of the 8 with one home and away game to go? When we finish a season in 6th and enter the finals without a realistic chance of winning a flag? When we lose a Prelim? Which of those games are meaningful?

We can't go from spoon to flag in one year, so in the meantime when do we start playing meaningful games?

phoenix johnson · **Posted:** Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:56 pm

When we have assembled a team that is good enough to make a charge for the finals.

mikkey · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:27 pm **Posts:** 4129

Synbad wrote:

The pp will probably stay.
Especially if StKilda win the premiership this year.
Clubs will say its unfair to load that club up with guns and then take it away.

On the flip side the AFL is working... (as far as theyre concenred) a wooden spooner is now favourite for the flag (in my opinion) and the AFL with the most succesful clubs at the bottom is about to smash the record attendance figure and new tv rights are about to be another record.. the game is alive and well....

Its leaving behind some of us that are living in the past.

Better change how we think or be lost... forever in our past.

I disagree on this one Synbad. As per my earlier post - in the short term it works for the AFL - in the long term they are undermining the fabric of the sport. The AFL is trying to run the sport the American way. What they forget is that the US has 280 million people. WE have less then 20 and in Victoria less then 5. To achieve the type of attendences, membership and interest in the sport we see her ("per capita") you need an enormous amount of passion. If you kill the passion in the long run you kill the sport.

camel · **Posted:** Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:58 pm

mikkey wrote:

camelboy wrote:

Don't apologise mikkey, that was good stuff.

I agree that if the PP is to be kept then a good system may be to apply the qualification over a number of years. But I cannot agree with the lottery system. While it may or may not stop the attraction to tanking, IMO it would just be moving from one farce to another.

Why Camel? The lottery system (with 4 picks per lottery) does not entice tanking or the loose /win/ win/loose situation. You woudl have a chance to get the first pick no matter if you are 16 or 13 and the only difference between 12 and 13 might still be pick 4 and 5. It would stop the circus going on right now. If we had the above system we could win all our remaining games and still get pick 1 or pick 4. Does not matter - much better system...

You might be right. But what if the club in 13th wins 8 games and the club in 16th wins 1 and the 13th club gets #1 and 16th gets #4, is not that counter productive to the whole basis of the draft?

I can see a lottery system working to decide PP picks if more than one club is eligible, but for the regular first round I'm not sure that it has a lot of merit.

The system. Today's result. How does it make you feel?

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